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  #1  
Old 11-05-2013, 12:48 PM
ignitionmodule ignitionmodule is offline
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Dash Command data log graphs

Played with this briefly before my car went in for a new clutch/DMF. It would be interesting to see relative comparisons of other people's cars with different mods since so many people have the app and capability to log real data.

I used Dash Command to log the data and the free version of ScanXL to read the file. Entered as many of my car's parameters as were available.

I used alt/prt screen to dump the file into MS paint and reduced it to 75%.

Open to the format but if everyone standardized to the same parameters it would be easier to read and compare.
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Old 11-05-2013, 04:03 PM
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Cool idea. My only comment is that HP and torque might not be the most useful quantities, since they are estimated using many other inputs (and looking at your output, considerably over-estimated unless you are very highly modified and tuned).

I get similar over-estimates of power, which I don't totally understand. It seems like if you can provide an accurate weight you should be able to derive HP pretty easily. Maybe I'll try to do that using basic parameters and compare it to the DC over-estimates.

Edited to add: I see that those might not be gross over-estimates in your case.
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Old 11-05-2013, 05:18 PM
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Hehe. Maybe not but what interests me is the relative differences since a lot of people would be using the same tool.
I'll log a better data set once I get my car back. Before tune, after tune, and then after the DP and new tune.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rhygin View Post
Cool idea. My only comment is that HP and torque might not be the most useful quantities, since they are estimated using many other inputs (and looking at your output, considerably over-estimated unless you are very highly modified and tuned).

I get similar over-estimates of power, which I don't totally understand. It seems like if you can provide an accurate weight you should be able to derive HP pretty easily. Maybe I'll try to do that using basic parameters and compare it to the DC over-estimates.

Edited to add: I see that those might not be gross over-estimates in your case.
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Old 11-05-2013, 05:40 PM
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This is a cool idea. Can we post 0-60 times also (using DashCommand)?

No launch (my ultimate goal is 5.9):

Click the image to open in full size.
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Old 11-06-2013, 09:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ignitionmodule View Post
Open to the format but if everyone standardized to the same parameters it would be easier to read and compare.
Yes definitely. We would also have to agree on a test method too. Ex: flat land, 3rd gear, 3000 rpm to red line, 5 runs take the average. Regardless of the validity of the hp and torque calculations of the app any assistance would be appreciated in picking the best numbers for...
  • brake specific fuel consumption (most confusing because it is not really a constant)
  • Drag coefficients
  • Frontal area
The brake specific fuel consumption setting adjusts the hp and torque calculation up and down. Per this post, "Our horsepower calculation relies on the BSFC setting and the calculated fuel flow (which uses MAF, or MAP and VE is MAF isn't available). Increasing the BSFC setting will lower the calculated HP". If nothing is entered it defaults to 0.44 (I get crazy high numbers. ex: 248 hp and 282 ft-lbs). Palmer recommends 0.50 to 0.60 for turbo charged cars (I have been using 0.50 and the numbers seem plausible. ex: 202 hp and 208 ft-lbs). Only found one article listing the minimum BSFC as, "348g/kWh at 2000rpm/2bar BMEP". I think this converts to 0.57 lb/hph. This page gives general BSFC numbers for different types of engines.

My Dashcommand iOS vehicle settings:
Engine displacement: 1598cc (owner manual)
Fuel type: Gasoline
Fuel tank capacity: 13.2 gal (owner manual)
Brake specific fuel consumption: .50
Tire size specification: 205/45R17
Final drive ratios: (NAM VIN Decoder)
  • Axle ratio: 3.65
  • 1st gear: 3.31
  • 2nd gear: 2.13
  • 3rd gear: 1.48
  • 4th gear: 1.14
  • 5th gear: 0.95
  • 6th gear: 0.82
  • 7th gear: nothing entered
Curb weight: Hardtop S Manual Transmission 2668 lb. (owner manual)
Additional weight: 150 lb (my weight)
Drag coefficients: Hardtop 0.36, Clubman 0.34, Countryman 0.36 (From the TheCheatOSX's service bulletin database here, SIM000210)
Frontal area: 1.99 square meters (here)
Maximum engine speed: 6500 rpm
Minimum engine speed: 700 rpm
Attached Files
File Type: pdf SIM000210.pdf (158.6 KB, 40 views)
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Last edited by pepperwhiteknight; 12-05-2013 at 10:20 AM. Reason: updated drag coef. and weight
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Old 11-07-2013, 04:51 AM
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I did not have frontal area. Good data find. I used 2833 for curb weight since I have a Clubman. Should probably include my 230lbs in there somewhere as well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pepperwhiteknight View Post
Yes definitely. We would also have to agree on a test method too. Ex: flat land, 3rd gear, 3000 rpm to red line, 5 runs take the average. Regardless of the validity of the hp and torque calculations of the app any assistance would be appreciated in picking the best numbers for...
  • brake specific fuel consumption (most confusing because it is not really a constant)
  • Drag coefficients
  • Frontal area
The brake specific fuel consumption setting adjusts the hp and torque calculation up and down. Per this post, "Our horsepower calculation relies on the BSFC setting and the calculated fuel flow (which uses MAF, or MAP and VE is MAF isn't available). Increasing the BSFC setting will lower the calculated HP". If nothing is entered it defaults to 0.44 (I get crazy high numbers. ex: 248 hp and 282 ft-lbs). Palmer recommends 0.50 to 0.60 for turbo charged cars (I have been using 0.50 and the numbers seem plausible. ex: 202 hp and 208 ft-lbs). Only found one article listing the minimum BSFC as, "348g/kWh at 2000rpm/2bar BMEP". I think this converts to 0.57 lb/hph. This page gives general BSFC numbers for different types of engines.

My Dashcommand iOS vehicle settings:
Engine displacement: 1598cc (owner manual)
Fuel type: Gasoline
Fuel tank capacity: 13.2 gal (owner manual)
Brake specific fuel consumption: .50
Tire size specification: 205/45R17
Final drive ratios: (NAM VIN Decoder)
  • Axle ratio: 3.65
  • 1st gear: 3.31
  • 2nd gear: 2.13
  • 3rd gear: 1.48
  • 4th gear: 1.14
  • 5th gear: 0.95
  • 6th gear: 0.82
  • 7th gear: nothing entered
Curb weight: 2668 lb (owner manual)
Additional weight: 150 lb (my weight)
Drag coefficients: 0.36 (here)
Frontal area: 1.99 square meters (here)
Maximum engine speed: 6500 rpm
Minimum engine speed: 700 rpm
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Old 11-07-2013, 05:18 PM
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Did you enter a value for Brake specific fuel consumption for your run?
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Old 11-07-2013, 06:55 PM
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  #9  
Old 11-07-2013, 07:13 PM
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Great, entered all the parameters.
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Old 11-08-2013, 03:05 PM
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Got my Vgate elm327 connected to my iphone via wifi. Took me a bit to get it to connect to the dash command app. Not sure what happened but as I was in the gauge screen, my car started to stutter at idle until the check engine light came on and it stalled out. Any ideas?

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Old 11-09-2013, 05:57 AM
ignitionmodule ignitionmodule is offline
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No, but you might have better lucking posting in a trouble shooting forum.

Quote:
Originally Posted by madmaxxed View Post
Got my Vgate elm327 connected to my iphone via wifi. Took me a bit to get it to connect to the dash command app. Not sure what happened but as I was in the gauge screen, my car started to stutter at idle until the check engine light came on and it stalled out. Any ideas?

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Old 11-09-2013, 06:01 AM
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Been running into walls everywhere trying to get this thread up and running. Just got my car back but have to break in the clutch for 300 miles. No hard pulls until then.

Probably better to start new thread once we get a data format hashed out. Or just reformat as people ask to see other data?

Timing advance will be interesting before/after the various pieces I'm bolting on.
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Old 11-09-2013, 06:34 PM
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This thread is a great idea. I'm also using DC and importing to ScanXL. I've been recording RPM, boost, AFR and timing displayed in the top window. I put IAT in the second window but we could put HP and torque in the second window. I'd be open to other formats though. Anybody else have a preference?

I've mainly been recording this data as my JB+ was just installed and I'm seeing how far I can push it on 93 octane without the ECU pulling timing.
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Old 11-09-2013, 06:52 PM
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No preference but have been changing the graphs around a lot. Been trying to decide how many and which sensors to monitor. Purchased the kiwi2 and dashcommand specifically to monitor timing, boost, and afr.

Graph with Spark Advance, Boost, RPM, Long Term Fuel Trim, AFR, Torque, HP, Short Term Fuel Trim.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/jy0em88u8x...20-%20Copy.vdl
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Old 11-09-2013, 08:00 PM
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Purchased my dash command ($9.99)and installed my ELM327 WiFi OBD. Had to manually enter the IP address and port in my iPhone and in the app. During my first drive getting to know the Dash Command I recorded 240 hp during a max effort 0-60 run. I am assuming this is shaft HP. Does anyone know of a formula to covert the Dash Command HP to wheel HP? With my mods and the JB+ I had assumed I might be able to obtain about 200-210 HP at the wheels. Is a better way to use the 0-60 time against the vehicle's curb weight? My JB+ is in the default position.

I will enter all the data listed by pepperwhiteknight above. Perhaps that will bring things into a more realistic range.

I do find the app fascinating and expect to have a lot of fun with it.
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Old 11-09-2013, 08:52 PM
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Entering in the parameters will effect the hp reported, especially BSFC.

What were your 0-60 times?
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Old 11-09-2013, 09:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cerenkov View Post
Entering in the parameters will effect the hp reported, especially BSFC.

What were your 0-60 times?
Honestly I only had time to do one quick drive this afternoon after I installed the ELM327 and finally got it paired. I have a lot to learn about he app. I pulled the HP output from the peak listed on my gauge display. I wasn't using the dashboard at the time. I plan on doing some timed 0-60 runs with the accelerometer in the near future and learning how to upload my performance charts. From what I've been feeling in the seat back and the way my tires are breaking in the 1st to 2nd transition I won't be surprised if I'm at or breaking the 6 second barrier.

BTW I'm hoping the ELM327 goes to sleep after the vehicle does. I don't want to return to a dead battery in the am.
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Old 11-10-2013, 09:28 AM
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Adding a Gauge

I apologize if I am missing something obvious but I would appreciate any feedback on how to add a gauge (i.e. spark advance) to my gauge page(s). Am I correct in that you need to build your gauge from scratch and rename it? I would have thought there would be a default gauge selected to which you could amend the given ranges. If this is the methodology what would be a good range in degrees to set for spark advance/retard?

Additionally is there any way to change the scale range on the dashboard for a greater degree of accuracy. For example I'd like to change the HP and Torque scales from 500 HP to 250 HP.
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Old 11-10-2013, 09:47 AM
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Great Info

Are the logs a Windows only option?
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Old 11-10-2013, 10:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Christensen View Post
I apologize if I am missing something obvious but I would appreciate any feedback on how to add a gauge (i.e. spark advance) to my gauge page(s). Am I correct in that you need to build your gauge from scratch and rename it? I would have thought there would be a default gauge selected to which you could amend the given ranges. If this is the methodology what would be a good range in degrees to set for spark advance/retard? Additionally is there any way to change the scale range on the dashboard for a greater degree of accuracy. For example I'd like to change the HP and Torque scales from 500 HP to 250 HP.
The short answer is yes you can edit anything in the gauges screen from the app. To edit the dashboard screen it's more involved and you have to use skinXL I think it's called.

On the gauges screen you can edit the existing gauges or add your own. For example to get timing edit an existing gauge and just change the PID to timing, it's under the spark section. Then scroll down to adjust the scale to what ever to want. Also you other settings, like color, to your liking.

I have boost displayed from 10 to 18 for example with a maximum triangle indicator and the digital part of the gauge displays engine coolant temp. Then I have a graph that displays AFR, Timing and boost. This really helps to see if timing is being pulled while under boost.

There is a link to the manual from inside the app if that helps.
Attached Thumbnails
Dash Command data log graphs-image-3167906198.jpg  
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Old 11-10-2013, 10:21 AM
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Great Info Are the logs a Windows only option?
Yes. There is not a OSX version of the program. I bootcamp to windows.
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Old 11-10-2013, 10:27 AM
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Custom Gauge

Quote:
Originally Posted by cerenkov View Post
The short answer is yes you can edit anything in the gauges screen from the app. To edit the dashboard screen it's more involved and you have to use skinXL I think it's called.

On the gauges screen you can edit the existing gauges or add your own. For example to get timing edit an existing gauge and just change the PID to timing, it's under the spark section. Then scroll down to adjust the scale to what ever to want. Also you other settings, like color, to your liking.

I have boost displayed from 10 to 18 for example with a maximum triangle indicator and the digital part of the gauge displays engine coolant temp. Then I have a graph that displays AFR, Timing and boost. This really helps to see if timing is being pulled while under boost.

There is a link to the manual from inside the app if that helps.
Thanks, that's pretty much what I deduced. What would a good range for spark advance be? Is there any need for listing negative degrees for ignition retard? I also like your black gauge face with the orange display.
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Old 11-10-2013, 10:40 AM
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After you get a gauge set up and you go to move it be very careful not to accidently hit the delete button instead of the move button, there is no 'undo' button. DashCommand is a real time consumer, lol.
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Old 11-10-2013, 10:41 AM
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For timing, 0-60 is a decent range and your right I also don't think negative is very useful value.
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Old 11-10-2013, 06:19 PM
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I run my Adv from -20 to 45, boost from 0 to 20, rpm 0 to 7000 and afr from 10 to 30.

On a side note if you have a Mac and the iFunBox app on the Mac you can edit of the skins/gauges in DashXL and upload it directly to your iPhone. The raw iPhone path is /var/mobile/applications/(long string of numbers mine starts with 4CID8A50)/documents/dashxl/ on the phone itself. Been playing with one called ACM Tuxedo. Bit of a PIA though as the DashXL is not very friendly and has a bit of a learning curve.
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