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>>hey great great stuff there but i got a few questions that is boggling my mind.....
>>
....>>
>>-nam huynh
Well, he is planning to do "butt-dyno" comparison testing soon. He also mentioned comparing a naturally aspirated engine and one with forced induction is like "apples & oranges." The NA engine is more affected for intake temp.
Quote:
Andy: why don't you start a company? maybe have a contest to decide a name?
How about "Ross-Tech"?
__________________ "Market research is bunk... the public don't know what they want, it is my job to tell them" - Sir Alec Issigonis
>>hey great great stuff there but i got a few questions that is boggling my mind.....
>>
>>ok so you get the same flow numbers and near same temperatures or better and stuff.... what gets me thinking is this... and dont worry im not bashing or anything im just wondering because like did you get these numbers when the car is parked and stuff.
>>
>>hMM confusing huh? ok ill use an example.. ok the acura rsx type s.. there are two types of intakes ill use as an example. one of them is the AEM CAI and the other is the INJEN CAI. AEM claims 18 to 20 hp on their CAI and it maintains that number even on the tracks and stuff. so it performs as well as it has its numbers to back them up. INJEN on the other hand gets 15 hp on the dyno and stuff BUTTTTT it does nothing when people actually drive it. so even if they make great numbers on the dyno.. it gotta do well on the track because thats what it matters most right?
>>
>>so again im not bashing but how does it do well on the tracks? i mean i as well as all of us are interested in this. i mean come on.. who isnt willing to give up 40 bucks to buy a filter and have that extra 180 dollars to lets say... go buy more mods with that?
>>
>>-nam huynh
Nam,
You have to read the posts. The third post showed Andy's numbers. They were perfomed in 2nd gear at 65mph. There are no dyno numbers here. Frankly I don't care. These are the real numbers generated by the use of this intake (temp/pressure), not hp.
This is honestly the best thread in a while up in her...
So from someone else's post...you had to disasemble or relocate the emmissions system to use the HEI or was that for something else?
Mac, thanks for the answer, now I understand...boost will go up to a certain point and then drop due to different variables, one of which is air temp...right?
That said, if we could find a way to use the Alta foam filter (by finding a coupling device) would that/could that work better than the K&N?
Cheese was being a bit dramatic about the emissions system. There are two vent lines from the valve cover that dispose of vapors and allow the crankcase to "breathe". One of those lines is routed back into the inlet to the supercharger. The other line is routed into the rubber inlet hose just upstream from the throttle body. By using a breather filter on the second line, vapors can escape into the engine compartment rather than being ducted back into the air intake. BUT, 99.9% of the time, that line experiences a mild vacuum. So, air is being inhaled through the filter rather than vapors being purged MOST of the time. Only under heavy load/boost, are vapors escaping. I may end up getting an elbow and threading it into the endcap of the K&N, but it's not super high on my priority list.
__________________ http://www.ross-tech.net/andy/frink.gif
"Well, sure, the Frinkiac-7 looks impressive, don't touch it, but I predict that within 100 years, computers will be twice as powerful, 10,000 times larger, and so expensive that only the five richest kings of Europe will own them."
When you first did it, was there some sort of light that was trigered inside the car, (like a CO sensor or someting) or is this from experience? Also, what are the risks of emmisions under the hood? Can they leak back into the car and cause some problems?
No bashing, just heavy interest...I really want to get rid of the sound that the alta makes under low pressure, and am seriously considering doing this :smile:
There are no sensors for the crankcase ventilation, so no lights have come on and there are no fault codes. In a holistic sense, my car may have slightly higher overall emissions, but it's nothing like removing the cat.
__________________ http://www.ross-tech.net/andy/frink.gif
"Well, sure, the Frinkiac-7 looks impressive, don't touch it, but I predict that within 100 years, computers will be twice as powerful, 10,000 times larger, and so expensive that only the five richest kings of Europe will own them."
Im not worrying about numbers, although i did bring up hp in my reply. i was just wondering does it maintain that flow number. AEM had better flow than INJEN thats why the RSX community went for AEM. it maintained its numbers and flow. so i was wondering about HAI VS CAI and how these numbers are... i guess you can say maintained. again im not bashing. i am just wondering about these numbers and how they are in real time situations.
-nam huynh
__________________
RIP MININAM 6-8-03
United States Coast Guard Reserve- Port Security Unit 312 San Francisco
Would this work with the Cooper as well? Its practically the same exact same position minus the tube connecting it to the TB The cooper's tubing even runs right to that area, so should i try this out on my cooper too?
I'm not sure how efficient or inefficient the stock Cooper intake is. Someone may wish to measure the air pressure with a magnehelic gauge to see what they get for stock and modded values.
__________________ http://www.ross-tech.net/andy/frink.gif
"Well, sure, the Frinkiac-7 looks impressive, don't touch it, but I predict that within 100 years, computers will be twice as powerful, 10,000 times larger, and so expensive that only the five richest kings of Europe will own them."
Hi all,
Been following this thread, as well as others, about intakes. So now I have a question that may only garner theories and not hard evidence, but, here goes...
Is there any advantage to be had by having a tube of any length or shape between the filter and the TB? I remember the old days when a tunnel ram manifold was used on a big block V8. Does the tube increase airflow? Does it increase turbulence? Is that good? I am sure at some point there are diminishing returns. But where is that point?
So what I am wondering is if a short tube would help? Would a longer tube that bends more slowly be better or worse than no tube at all? In this thread there is the question of the Cooper aftermarket intake. In another thread active right now about K&N Typhoon, there is a photo of (buckeyemcs') an intake that has a cone filter in the regular aftermarket intake location, but with no front on the shield. Does that make any sense.
Again, I am only interested in theories now, not hard numbers. Because I figure nobody has numbers with all of those variables. But some people have some experience with flow dynamics, or at least slept at a Holiday Inn Express last night.
__________________
Motor On!
John L -MMC #96
ex-'04 MCS IB/W Chrome grille/ proud papa of AstroCoop - it's hereditary!
____________________________________________ "If there is one thing I can't stand, it's intolerance"
I think to prove that the K&N filter connected directly to the TB creates less pressure than a Cold air intake with tubing, you have to test using the same filter. The K&N may just flow better than the Alta making your comparisons invalid. Can you test comparing the K&N directly connected to the TB to the K&N connected to the Alta Airbox? That would at least show if the Filter is the restriction or if the tubing is the restriction. You may even get better performance from the K&N/Alta combination. Either way I think it shows you don't have to speed alot of money for better performance. At least with the K&N connected diectly to the TB you have more room for a big turbo where the airbox used to be, or use the airbox for extra storage.
Yep, I'll do that when I put the Alta back on. I've been driving around happily with the HAI and am reluctant to throw the Alta back on there.
__________________ http://www.ross-tech.net/andy/frink.gif
"Well, sure, the Frinkiac-7 looks impressive, don't touch it, but I predict that within 100 years, computers will be twice as powerful, 10,000 times larger, and so expensive that only the five richest kings of Europe will own them."
>>Andy,
>>
>>I think to prove that the K&N filter connected directly to the TB creates less pressure than a Cold air intake with tubing, you have to test using the same filter. The K&N may just flow better than the Alta making your comparisons invalid. Can you test comparing the K&N directly connected to the TB to the K&N connected to the Alta Airbox? That would at least show if the Filter is the restriction or if the tubing is the restriction. You may even get better performance from the K&N/Alta combination. Either way I think it shows you don't have to speed alot of money for better performance. At least with the K&N connected diectly to the TB you have more room for a big turbo where the airbox used to be, or use the airbox for extra storage. :smile: or as in the pther post, a fuel pressure regulator and the pluming back...
i think the circuit through the blower and the intercoooler offsets any induction length tuning.
The most restrictivbe portion of the intake tract is the squeezed and tortured connector between the throttle bdy and blower; a real pos just begging for the experimental chamber at the secret lab.
I did some preliminary testing for our "new" CAI, and started with taking pressure readings from the
rubber down tube. And this is what I found:
1. Down tube pressure during 2nd gear WOT at 6000rpm -0.003psi negative pressure
2. Down tube pressure during 2nd gear WOT at 6000 rpm with scoop force feeding cowl area +/-0.00 psi
I would say force feeding the air in to the CAI is a plus (must).
>>1. Down tube pressure during 2nd gear WOT at 6000rpm -0.003psi negative pressure
>>
>>2. Down tube pressure during 2nd gear WOT at 6000 rpm with scoop force feeding cowl area +/-0.00 psi
>>
>>I would say force feeding the air in to the CAI is a plus (must).
>>
>>peter
>>
>>Team M7
Peter,
What sort of instrumentation do you have that is capable of measuring with a tolerance of +/- .001 PSI?
Would you say that a .003PSI increase is "force feeding" ?
Cheese.....my bad, low blood sugar, hungry, tired,Etc. Etc.
It's .3 and I use a Dwyer series 475 Mark 3 Digital manometer.
And yes I do beleive that the pressure difference is significant, as I was scooping in the air in a very rudimentary way
at fairly low speeds, and I was not connected in anyway with the airbox.
I would not say that .3 is a significant number by any means, but if the ram air would be connected in one way or an other to the air box, significant gains could be had adding possitive pressurized air to the throttle body.
I read this a couple of hours and was so excited I have been running around town trying to find the K&N filter in stock so that I could try it tonight. No such luck. I am toying with the idea of of the HAI and then putting a small battery where the original filter was. I would then eliminate the battery box and put a very nice and much less costly straight through exhaust on.
The other idea is to put on the HAI while I modify the existing big air box to hold a similar great big filter and then do a clean and sealed large opening to the cold air at the base of the windshield to try to have a true cold air system. Pretty much every intake I have seen looks like a HAI system with more cost.
I've done the battery box removal and now have what I call a Super Borla catback- a SuperSprint 2.5" center pipe with resonator flowing into a Borla Turbo muffler with zero bends needed. I love it! As with a few others, I also have one of those "small batteries" called SLA or sealed lead acid batteries. I've had mine installed for almost 2 years with no problems. And while I'm no expert on these batteries, a fair amount of reading has taught me that they dislike heat very much. Keeping them away from the engine is a plus. Also, moving more weight to the front of the MCS is not exactly advisable...
__________________
Weight ('03 IB MCS): 2,424 lbs (corner-balanced, 1/4 tank gas)
Thanks for the info. I don't want to change the subject since I think this is a great thread. Where did you put the battery? Is it still in the stock but now smaller area? on in the boot?
