As I was doing a search for info on Limited slip differentials for the MINI I ran across this Sept 2003 testimonial from Tony Nuzzo of Nuzzo motor sports.:
http://www.phantomgrip.com/nuzzo_testimonial.htm

The stock MINI has an open differential. The Quaife LSD is a gear type LSD.

How the grip works:
http://www.phantomgrip.com/how_it_works.htm


Anyone with first hand knowledge about the Phantom Grip? Certainly it is less expensive than the Quaife.

An old thread about the Phantom Grip from Feb 03
https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...amp;topic=5500

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Aloha

 

Dunno too much, but i know a little about a lot

From what i hear, this type of "LSD" is not a variable locker. The quaife is geared, forget the pun, to manage many kinds of traction situations. Where the cheapy is not nearly as versatile.

Bottom line... if you dont want to change your tires evey 5months, dont do it.

The wheel hop associated with cheap LSDs is notorious. Im sure there are many other concerns. But Ill hold my tounge till I hear what others have to say.

Peace.

 

Well, I have been skeptical of this product, but I also know Tony Nuzzo personally after spending a weekend in the pits with him and his team this past spring when they were racing at Barber Motorosports Park.

It's very re-assuring to hear that he gave the Phantom Grip LSD a glowing review after running it in the Grand AM Cup. So, no I have no personal experience with this, and always thought that Quaife was the way to go for LSD, but now think that this may be a very good option, especially considering the significant price difference between the 2 units.

Hopefully someone else with firsthand knowledge will tell us more about how this product handles on the street.

 

It's been about 4 months since this thread was last up and I am curious if anyone has any new information about this less expensive LSD, the Phantom Grip. It certainly looks like the less expensive option....if it works.

Thanks for all responses!!!

 

This type of LSD conversion makes the differential work much like a common 'posi' limited slip diff by creating additional friction between the spider and side gears and the differential case. Unlike a 'true' cone or clutch type LSD however, there isnt any large clutching area provided by a set of cone- or plate-type clutches, so the effect of locking wont be as great. Also, since there is a very heavy spring pressure pushing the side gears into the differential case at all times, I wonder what the long term effects of that friction and wear will be. The Quaife and similar gear style LSDs work also by gear friction against the differential case, but their design is such that there is a lot more area being contacted, plus there is no preloading springs to create a constant binding situation.

 

Hi guys...

I will order one as soon as they get back on Friday...
I think I could have a comparison made between the Quaife and the phantom grip in 2 weeks...

peter horvath
562-712-3270

 

Thanks Peter. Looking forward to it.

-Chris

 

>>Hi guys...
>>
>>I will order one as soon as they get back on Friday...
>>I think I could have a comparison made between the Quaife and the phantom grip in 2 weeks...
>>
>>peter horvath
>>562-712-3270


I am saving the $$$$$ now and awaiting the test results!!!

 

Paulmon had this LSD installed in his "Tuner Transformation Car" see that thread for details. It has the stiffest (Green) springs installed in it and he indicated he is very happy with it so far. I plan on installing one in my MCS as the next mod. It certainly has some drawbacks compared to a "real LSD" but I still think it's a real good alternative. I PM'd Tony a few days ago about recommending this unit for a street/Autox car but haven't gotten a response yet. There are good reports and bad reports on the web about this type of LSD. I think some of the problems are from improper installation and some maybe a result of differentials that can't support the added spring preassure agains the Gears and failure occurs. All LSD's appear to be a compromise of 2 wheel grip or differential action. I don't see why this wouldn't be the good budget minded LSD and since Tony indicates the real world application of the PG is better than the Quaife I'm sold.

 

I want to know more. Does it work?? What about the tires?? Peter, let us know what you think.

Earl

 

>>.
>>
>>Bottom line... if you dont want to change your tires evey 5months, dont do it.
>>
>>
...that sounds about normal tire life for me anyway!

 

>>Bottom line... if you dont want to change your tires evey 5months, dont do it.
>>

BUT if you are only buying front tires how many can you by for the difference in price?

Earl

 

Super_MINI is correct, I have this diff thanks to the folks at Tuner Transformation. I'm happy so far but have yet to autocross it, I'll post a report after my first autocross on the 18th. However there is one thing that you must be aware of with this less expensive LSD option. Because it uses springs those springs will loose some of their spring after 2-3 years. When that happenes you have to go back into the diff and put in new springs or shims. So while the initial cost is lower over the long haul it's going to be more expensive I think. When it's time for me to rip the tranny out again I'm going to get the Quaife installed as it comes with a lifetime warranty.

Paul

 

>>
>>Super_MINI is correct, I have this diff thanks to the folks at Tuner Transformation. I'm happy so far but have yet to autocross it, I'll post a report after my first autocross on the 18th. However there is one thing that you must be aware of with this less expensive LSD option. Because it uses springs those springs will loose some of their spring after 2-3 years. When that happenes you have to go back into the diff and put in new springs or shims. So while the initial cost is lower over the long haul it's going to be more expensive I think. When it's time for me to rip the tranny out again I'm going to get the Quaife installed as it comes with a lifetime warranty.
>>
>>Paul

I figure I'll burn up my clutch every two to three years anyway. Where did you get the info that the springs would need to be replaced every two to three years? Wouldn't this also hold true for other clutch/spring type (real) LSD's (not the Quaife gear type)?

 

I thought I read a while back that the Quaife was good for only about 40K miles before it needed a rebuild. Can someone confirm if this is true or not? If it is true that would negate any costs you'd have replacing springs in the other type.

 

>>I thought I read a while back that the Quaife was good for only about 40K miles before it needed a rebuild. Can someone confirm if this is true or not? If it is true that would negate any costs you'd have replacing springs in the other type.


I would find this surprising considering it has a life time warranty, even if it's raced.

Paul

 

Pick up the newest issue of GrassRoots Motorsports - there is an article on Limited-slips - includind the phantom-grip. It's the issue with the 240z and 350z on the cover - maybe not on the newsstand yet - I got it in the mail last night.

 

From their web site, it looks like this:


"FWD differential secrets: put the power down" ... could not find copy on the web site though!

 

Any chance you can share with us the results for those of us who can't get it at the news stand or don't have a subscription?

 

And here I thought only Timothy Leary knew anything about LSD

 

The Grassroots article summarizes the Phantom style modified stock differentials as follows: "These are okay for drag racing and can be made to work reasonably well for front-wheel drive racing on ovals, but the preload, small friction areas and locking would seem to be drawbacks for high-power front-drive autocross or road course use." and go on to say "If you do use one of these, it would make sense to have the case, pinions and side gears hardened and to periodically examine the fluid and debris pickup magnets for excessive material."

Not exactly confidence inspiring.

 

Is there anything in between the Quaife and Phantom price wise?
Is any LSD Better than the Quaife price not being a concern?

 

>>The Grassroots article summarizes the Phantom style modified stock differentials as follows: "These are okay for drag racing and can be made to work reasonably well for front-wheel drive racing on ovals, but the preload, small friction areas and locking would seem to be drawbacks for high-power front-drive autocross or road course use." and go on to say "If you do use one of these, it would make sense to have the case, pinions and side gears hardened and to periodically examine the fluid and debris pickup magnets for excessive material."
>>
>>Not exactly confidence inspiring.

I think I would agree with their findings. I think the key here is "high-power" FWD being the key. The higher power you run the less effective the PG is or the stiffer springs you must use to make it work right causing even more load on the gears. After searching the web the consensus seemed to be that for cars with less than 250 hp the unit seems to work well. Over 250hp and it becomes less effective and more likely to wear/overheat and cause problems. I don't think you want to use the PG if you are still creating one wheel spin because of too much HP. This will obviously cause more wear. The springs are designed to work effectivly at certain HP levels and the only time you want differential action is when required around a corner not because you are trying to put more HP down to the ground causing differentiation from excessive wheel spin. I still like the unit for the MINI but I wouldn't buy this unit for what it was intended and put it in a 350hp MINI and expect it to work without problems. I do wish their were other options than the Quaife, I know the Torsen unit will be available soon but I think it's still $800 and requires grip on both wheels to work. I think there needs to be a $500 solution down the road to make the LSD affordable.


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From the article, it sounds like the only downsides to a Quaife/Torsen differential are weight, and lack of limited-slip action when one drive wheel is completely off the ground. I honestly can't recall a time when one front wheel was off the ground, but the other was still on the ground.

The Mazda differential definitely sounds promising as well.

 

>>I honestly can't recall a time when one front wheel was off the ground, but the other was still on the ground. <<

No...... you should go to a road race (pick a track) and sit in one of the corners, wheel lift in a frontwheel drive car
is very common, the worst case would be a VW Golf...

peter


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