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I have one with the M7 scoop for a little more air flow.
I wish I could tell you I noticed a difference, but I didn't.
I'm running this set up because I plan on installing a slightly smaller (15%) pulley than my current JCW pulley.
My hope is less ignition timing retardation when hammering it on a hot summer's day ; )
Did that (15%)and have a GP. I think it works good with the Extreme scoop,with alot of the diffuser restrictions removed. I can post a pic, its a straight shot in looking through the scoop.
__________________ 2009 fJCW BamaCooperS's ole Red
If you look on how the OEM's are made ,they are stamped together , it makes for a light IC, good flow and a very good heat transfer system. The bar and plate type, i.e. aftermarket are the opposite. . Too bad the way the OEM's are made cannot be reproduced aftermarket easily.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Helix13mini
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This kind of brings me to something that I've been chewing on lately: do people think that there is a market for a thin core like the GP? One that is not a huge heat sink, has a quick recovery rate, has excellent efficiency, and doesn't cost a mint? We could improve on a couple of things (like Dr. O's comment on the extra rows being out of the natural flow path). I've bounced a couple of napkin sketches to our cooling guy (who vetoed my first one ) but he likes the direction. I'm interested to see if there's enough interest to continue the pursuit.
__________________ 2009 fJCW BamaCooperS's ole Red
I think a good IC that actually worked well would sell well
look how many DON'T work that sell well! Pressure drop in the IC is really a function of three main things: How the air gets into the core (really crappy in pretty much every aftermarket IC); cross sectional flow area (can be pretty good in a lot of aftermarket ICs) and turbulator density (all over the place in aftermarket ICs).
The reason the stock and GP are so nice for what they are is that they have the lowest thermal mass of any IC out there, so they respond really, really fast. They have great air entry exit geometries as well. Where they fall short is in cross sectional area. A stocker that was 50% thicker would be great for higher flow engines for sure. The extra rows of the GP really need an internal end tank baffle to really contribute to enhanced operation, but it's not cost effective for the ICs as sold by MINI... Bummer!
The debate on external scoops isn't closed either. If you go slow like for street driving or AutoX, then a bigger scoop will probably net benefits. If you go on high speed tracks then the win isn't so clear because of added drag. So yes you get lower IATs, but then the car is harder to move through the air.
I tested the M7 Extreme scoop, and it actually did lower IATs. But I don't think it helped Cd at all!
Don at DMH tried scoops and IC at a track and found that while some did get better IATs, his top speed and lap time didn't change.... A lot goes into the mix.
Back to ICs... Also what is a good IC depends on other stuff as well. If you have a water/meth injection system, an IC with lower pressure drop and lower thermal efficinecy would serve you well. If you don't have W/M injection, higher thermal efficiencies with higher pressure drops will help more!
And here's something totally counterintuitive... With really good gas what was a worse IC on pump gas may actually get more power! Has to do with knock supression and timing retard. That was a shocker when I logged it, but makes total sense in hind-sight.
... do people think that there is a market for a thin core like the GP? One that is not a huge heat sink, has a quick recovery rate, has excellent efficiency, and doesn't cost a mint?
Yes ...
__________________ Sports Car Club of Vermont [SCCV.org]: A/X-TrackTT-IceTT-DD 2002MCS+:15%, Alta CAI, IE-style Custom Cat-back, Unichip Q, MSD, Brisk Silvers; ACT / Fidanza, B&M shifter; Hotchkis Springs & Control Arms, Alta 19mm, strut brace, Powerflex LCA's; Autometer gauges / Craven pods
People who dance are considered insane by those who can't hear the music.-anon
The reason the stock and GP are so nice for what they are is that they have the lowest thermal mass of any IC out there, so they respond really, really fast. They have great air entry exit geometries as well. Where they fall short is in cross sectional area. A stocker that was 50% thicker would be great for higher flow engines for sure.
What ^^ said...
The argument over which TMIC is best has been going on since the dawn of 2002! There is no TMIC that will work on track as a stand alone. Sure if you add meth then it will help but that's sticking a plaster over the problem.
If you track your car a lot then FMIC it, if you want a good on road TMIC then IMO GP for the win or a water to air system like the KMT/GRS chargecooler.
Here are some basic stats from Brands Hatch circuit during 8-10 flat out laps:
17%, BVH, JCW CAI, CAM, Manifold, Milltek
GRS FMIC
Ambient Temp: 8C
Max Inlet Temp: 31C
GRS TMIC:
Ambient Temp: 12C
Max Inlet Temp: 72C
15%, BVH, Dave.F CAI, CAM, Manifold, Milltek
GP TMIC
Ambient Temp: 6C
Max Inlet Temp: 58C
Sure you'll lose some boost going FMIC but you'll be making colder power so won't acutally lose that much whp/torque and your inlet temps will stay spot on.
For the road, IMO the GP I/C is one of the best out there and its damn cheap compared to most aftermarket ones, I got mine for £275 from a MINI dealer! A GRS is £400, GTT even more.
So it's a case of tailoring your set-up to the application and if you track it a lot then FMIC it IMO or turn your stock intercooler upright!
The argument over which TMIC is best has been going on since the dawn of 2002! There is no TMIC that will work on track as a stand alone. Sure if you add meth then it will help but that's sticking a plaster over the problem.
If you track your car a lot then FMIC it, if you want a good on road TMIC then IMO GP for the win or a water to air system like the KMT/GRS chargecooler.
Here are some basic stats from Brands Hatch circuit during 8-10 flat out laps:
17%, BVH, JCW CAI, CAM, Manifold, Milltek
GRS FMIC
Ambient Temp: 8C
Max Inlet Temp: 31C
GRS TMIC:
Ambient Temp: 12C
Max Inlet Temp: 72C
15%, BVH, Dave.F CAI, CAM, Manifold, Milltek
GP TMIC
Ambient Temp: 6C
Max Inlet Temp: 58C
Sure you'll lose some boost going FMIC but you'll be making colder power so won't acutally lose that much whp/torque and your inlet temps will stay spot on.
For the road, IMO the GP I/C is one of the best out there and its damn cheap compared to most aftermarket ones, I got mine for £275 from a MINI dealer! A GRS is £400, GTT even more.
So it's a case of tailoring your set-up to the application and if you track it a lot then FMIC it IMO or turn your stock intercooler upright!
But, but, but.....bigshot ? I have done most other mods already. At least those that will not take away from my MINI as being a reliable daily driver....
a little off topic here, but have you blown your s/c?
__________________
1986 Honda VF500 Interceptor
04 Chili Red r53
a little off topic here, but have you blown your s/c?
When it does go, I have a JCW SC in my closet....brand new Been runnin the hell out of it hoping it would blow so I could put the new one in, but it just keeps going, and going, and going......
Have you ?
__________________
2003 R53 - DS - 135K + Miles
Parts of MINI NOT Modded ( A Shorter List ) Block/Head/HK Stereo.
When it does go, I have a JCW SC in my closet....brand new Been runnin the hell out of it hoping it would blow so I could put the new one in, but it just keeps going, and going, and going......
Have you ?
You do realize your supercharger heard you say that....now it is gonna last till it has 300,000 miles!! JINKED!!
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l 2005 MCS l 11-04 Production l owned since new l RMW Tuned l Craven -17% Pulley l Craven Speed STD l Dinan CAI l JCW 380's l H&R 19 MM Swaybar l MSD Ignition l Power Steering Fan Duct l LightInSight l "EURO" MINI Armrest l Euro Parcel Shelf l Brake Light PULSAR(gen2)l Detroit Tuned Tensioner Stop l Blitzsafe/xmradio l Cobra 19IV CB l 4.5' Francis CB25 CB Antenna, mounted on the rear tow rig!!
When it does go, I have a JCW SC in my closet....brand new Been runnin the hell out of it hoping it would blow so I could put the new one in, but it just keeps going, and going, and going......
Have you ?
Just curious, do you think the JCW S/C will get you more power?
Just curious, do you think the JCW S/C will get you more power?
The coated SC's (black rotors OEM, a special ablative, rubbery coating from Eaton) were on JCW, and all 05+ cars....they are good for almost 5 HP over uncoated, due to cooler temps and higher efficient. Aftermarket coatings used in overhauls are usually more of a Teflon paint...and not as good.
.....but the black coatings are known to go bad and flake off in a bad way.
Sure....bearing are know to fail, heads crack, and valves leak. Maybe if this is all true we should walk!!
I just know that the coating, when it does fail is not found till Sc removal...so if the coating flakes off due to a manufacturing defect, or perhaps running a cleaner into the wrong vacuum line in a motor, and having it go through the SC...it is not the end of the world. The gain, including all the newest castings and manufacturing improvements makes getting the 05+ supercharger worthwhile IMO. 5 HP for careful shopping...sounds like a good deal to me, especially if I had an older S with the un-coated rotors, and I got a good price on one. Heck...I have coated rotors, and I would not consider getting an un-coated SC. that would be a downgrade. That is why I just bought a coated SC, much like the orgional poster...found it cheap (compared to MINI). Besides, the MINI M-45 is no longer in production.....so attrition is taking place with non-reparable SC's....I'm not saying they are getting rare....but you already must special order a new SC from the warehouse in Germany if you want new instead of overhauled.
The coated SC's (black rotors OEM, a special ablative, rubbery coating from Eaton) were on JCW, and all 05+ cars....they are good for almost 5 HP over uncoated, due to cooler temps and higher efficient. Aftermarket coatings used in overhauls are usually more of a Teflon paint...and not as good.
So 5 hp according to Mini? That might be a real world 1-2 hp
2009 fJCW BamaCooperS's ole Red
) but he likes the direction. I'm interested to see if there's enough interest to continue the pursuit.
Sports Car Club of Vermont [SCCV.org]: A/X-TrackTT-IceTT-DD
At least those that will not take away from my MINI as being a reliable daily driver....
Been runnin the hell out of it hoping it would blow so I could put the new one in, but it just keeps going, and going, and going......
