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hey guys=Since Jan nor mike comes out east very often - Can anyone rec.a GOOD tuner in the NJ area-
My car DEF. needs a good tune so that I can put my 550cc inj. in!!
thanks,gary
If you want a close dyno-tune from someone who knows MINIs, I think you have to drive to MD to the Behe shop.
I don't know of other options. If you go through DMH, I think they will ship your car down to Behe, but I could be wrong about that.
Or, of course, you wait until a west-coast tuner comes east and get in line at a tune weekend. I personally wouldn't be interested in that - I'd rather pay more for more time to have it done right the first time in case issues come up with the car. Not that it's not done right at tune events; I just know my luck - something will go wrong.
a little bird told me that the helix dyno is in!!! apparently not calibrated yet......but definitely a step in the right direction
i may be willing to organize the christening once it's all set.....so for those of you interested, call and/or email helix....often....and tell them you're up for a tuning event
__________________ You were born to rock, you'll never be an opera star!
The question I ask myself is do I really want to bring this crap up.
"Facts" are out there that these tunes are dissolved by our ECUs in no time.
So much hype at the dyno day tune party. Everything is done to produce these numbers that seem to justify spending all of this money.
Marc is a friend, so I used his post to let him know that it's a waste of money. If anyone disagrees then I have no issue with that and don't intend to get into any kind of baloney battle about it.
So to someone who's not so technically savvy, what does it mean that the ECU "dissolves" a tune - that it relearns what it wants to and adjusts accordingly despite the tune?
The question I ask myself is do I really want to bring this crap up.
"Facts" are out there that these tunes are dissolved by our ECUs in no time.
So much hype at the dyno day tune party. Everything is done to produce these numbers that seem to justify spending all of this money.
Marc is a friend, so I used his post to let him know that it's a waste of money. If anyone disagrees then I have no issue with that and don't intend to get into any kind of baloney battle about it.
oh i am not a balonian, i'm more like switzerland
but here's my simple picture of why the tune is good. (i'm trying to learn here, not bait you into some flame fest)
let's say i have installed a cam, header, reduced pulley, exhaust, and cai. i'm guessing the stock ecu can't "learn" how to integrate all these pieces to get the "most" out of them. i thought tuning does just that? thus the adadge that a dyno tune is "better" than a canned tune. i'm looking at the oct '09 grassroots motorsports page 40 which certainly seems to imply such.
so i am curious why you have said what you've said. perhaps you can direct me to the "facts?" thanks
__________________ You were born to rock, you'll never be an opera star!
oxtox - I think Greg's point is that, yes, the tune does what you suggest on the day of the tune... but the adaptive nature of the Siemens ECU starts trying to put everything "back to spec" so to speak... while it can NOT possibly accomplish this, it doesn't know any better. So it pushes all the levers it can push as far as it can push them, ultimately marginalizing the performance of the tune and adding additional symptoms in some cases.
Since the ECU architecture is "closed" I doubt anyone will ever do the degree of reverse engineering necessary to show exactly what happens to every car in every case - there will be cars that seem to respond well to tunes long-term... there will be others that seem "sick".
What I haven't seen (because I don't think it exists) is a systematically developed database of many tunes, the mods the car had, the dyno results on tune day, the dyno results 6 months later, and a list of any "oddities" the car developed over that time. Without that, we just have anecdotes of some people saying "Joe Blow's tune broke my MINI" and others saying "Tune has been the best thing I ever did".
I have NO question that tuning can yield a better-running car short term. But I do think Greg has some valid concerns - which I haven't seen addressed or disproved by the tuners.
__________________
I'm Paul, The car is Blimey--- BlimeyCabrio's Blog--- 2006 MCSCa w/lotsa mods and Union Jacks
Ten-time Dragon Veteran - Occasional Trackrat - Extreme Twisty Addict - Rhymers Ferry Road Fanatic
You need to make up your own mind here. Up to you where you put your money. I'm just trying to make you and others here that aware that you may not be really getting what you think.
So Greg would you like to back up your statements with some real proof. Or is this based on your Unichip days we all went through. What does your tuner say about the tune he put on your race car??????????
Do you have a stand alone in your car????????/
Personally, I bought an MTH tune early... then a RMW dyno tune... and will probably pay for another tune now that all mods are done... I'm not convinced that there's *no* benefit, nor that the tune is "doomed" to ultimately prove more problematic than good. But I absolutely understand Greg's hypothesis and believe it has merit - and understand that ultimately I might flash my car back to stock if i have problems, and all that tune money is down the crapper.
So I don't have an expectation that this is an "exact science" or that I'm somehow making a long term "investment" in a tune, and I'm not going to go ape if I later find out that I've wasted my money - I'm willing to take that chance. I think way too many people put way too much confidence in the maturity of the MINI tuning process... with realistic expectations, it's cool... with expectations of "perfection"... you're likely to be disappointed at some point. This is somewhat different than some other platforms where the ECUs are more open and the long-term implications of tuning are better understood. All this is just my humble opinion.
__________________
I'm Paul, The car is Blimey--- BlimeyCabrio's Blog--- 2006 MCSCa w/lotsa mods and Union Jacks
Ten-time Dragon Veteran - Occasional Trackrat - Extreme Twisty Addict - Rhymers Ferry Road Fanatic
BLIMEY Jan will correct me if I'm wrong, but he has never charged for a retune at any event I've been at if someone has added parts or has had an issue of any sort.
oxtox - I think Greg's point is that, yes, the tune does what you suggest on the day of the tune... but the adaptive nature of the Siemens ECU starts trying to put everything "back to spec" so to speak... while it can NOT possibly accomplish this, it doesn't know any better. So it pushes all the levers it can push as far as it can push them, ultimately marginalizing the performance of the tune and adding additional symptoms in some cases.
Since the ECU architecture is "closed" I doubt anyone will ever do the degree of reverse engineering necessary to show exactly what happens to every car in every case - there will be cars that seem to respond well to tunes long-term... there will be others that seem "sick".
What I haven't seen (because I don't think it exists) is a systematically developed database of many tunes, the mods the car had, the dyno results on tune day, the dyno results 6 months later, and a list of any "oddities" the car developed over that time. Without that, we just have anecdotes of some people saying "Joe Blow's tune broke my MINI" and others saying "Tune has been the best thing I ever did".
I have NO question that tuning can yield a better-running car short term. But I do think Greg has some valid concerns - which I haven't seen addressed or disproved by the tuners.
This man knows what he is talking about.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Revolution Mini Works
fact is: you are totally wrong
we have dyno'd cars that have not been touched for over a yr and they put down within 1% of what they made on the first tune
