You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community, at no cost, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is free, fast and simple, so please join our community today!
It is still the tempature of the top of the cylinder head that matters, not the hose. Adding to what was covered, modern aluminum head design allows fewer hot spots so that allows even higher operating temps. I would be more interested in seeing what the co relation between what teh ECU says the temp is and what the hose says. I may add a gauge. Hose type is easy and cheap, but ECU (odb port)driven may be a better indication.
eg. Nothing wrong but? You fried the engine. Don't know how many miles , but blowing smoke is an emissions issue, and you may have coverage for 100K under under the emissions device clauses. Do a little research.
The map thermostat opens and closes, regulated by a characteristic map. This regulation can be divided into 3 operating ranges:
Engine cold, map thermostat closed:
The coolant only flows in the engine (short circuit). The cooling circuit is closed. The thermostat is not activated.
Engine hot, map thermostat open:
The entire volume of coolant flows via the radiator. This means that the maximum available cooling output is exploited.
The thermostat is not activated.
Control range of the map thermostat:
Part of the coolant flows through the radiator. The map thermostat opens as of 105 C (221 F) and maintains a constant coolant temperature. In this operating range, the map thermostat can now be used to influence the coolant temperature specifically. This enables the setting of a higher coolant temperature in the part-load range of the engine. At higher operating temperatures in the part-load range, friction is reduced. This results in lower consumption and pollutant emissions. During full-load operation, higher operating temperatures involve disadvantages (retarding of the ignition due to knocking). For this reason, during full-load operation, the map thermostat is used to specifically set a coolant temperature of 85 C (185F).
I would be more interested in seeing what the co relation between what teh ECU says the temp is and what the hose says.
My physical gauge generally reads around 6-8 degrees warmer than the ECU thinks the car is. My gauge reads right at 230 degrees when driving around town and drops down to 190 degrees when driving in the track.
__________________
'07 MCS LB/B, One or two stock parts left...
Thanks for the explanation.
Shows how hard it is to get emissions in line. Not like the good old days of a wax plug thermostat. This shows why some see lower than I would have expected temps in some cases. Also clear why one should not mess with the system. Suprised on the full load mode due to the thermal mass of the system. Ain't computers great?
Good tip what "normal" hose temps are. I want to get a Scangauge, but I still want a voltmeter and temp dial. Still can't decide if a boost gauge is of any value.
The map thermostat opens and closes, regulated by a characteristic map. This regulation can be divided into 3 operating ranges:
Engine cold, map thermostat closed:
The coolant only flows in the engine (short circuit). The cooling circuit is closed. The thermostat is not activated.
Engine hot, map thermostat open:
The entire volume of coolant flows via the radiator. This means that the maximum available cooling output is exploited.
The thermostat is not activated.
Control range of the map thermostat:
Part of the coolant flows through the radiator. The map thermostat opens as of 105 C (221 F) and maintains a constant coolant temperature. In this operating range, the map thermostat can now be used to influence the coolant temperature specifically. This enables the setting of a higher coolant temperature in the part-load range of the engine. At higher operating temperatures in the part-load range, friction is reduced. This results in lower consumption and pollutant emissions. During full-load operation, higher operating temperatures involve disadvantages (retarding of the ignition due to knocking). For this reason, during full-load operation, the map thermostat is used to specifically set a coolant temperature of 85 C (185F).
Interesting....are you a MINI tech? You seem to quote a lot of specifics in this post.
It's very interesting info, and would explain why I see almost 50 degree variations in coolant temps sometimes. It still baffles me how I can drive the crap out of the car and not have the temp go above 180, and then other times it will hover at 220-225.
I was playing with it tonight, coolant temps were in the 170-185 range all night no matter how I drove...and then I kicked on the heater full blast to see if that had any effect and the temps shot back up to 220-225 range. Then if i kicked the a/c on max they'd go back down to the 170's. (from my understanding this forces the thermostat open)
__________________ 2006 MINI Cooper S JCW GP--GP#1599 -Stock...I think?? 2008 MINI Cooper S R56--Astro Black/White--Gone -JCW Turbo | Aquamist HFS-3 Meth injection | RMW AP Tune | Helix FMIC | DDM CAI | Riss Racing Catless DP+Invidia Exhaust
Interesting....are you a MINI tech? You seem to quote a lot of specifics in this post.
No I am not a Mini tech, never have been, however I have been around a while by that I mean, I have been working in the Racing industry longer than some of the guys/girls on here are old and in this length of time you tend to collect quite an amount of data and information.
Sometimes when I read threads, I wonder why people look for issue's and problems that simply are not there!
No I am not a Mini tech, never have been, however I have been around a while by that I mean, I have been working in the Racing industry longer than some of the guys/girls on here are old and in this length of time you tend to collect quite an amount of data and information.
Sometimes when I read threads, I wonder why people look for issue's and problems that simply are not there!
Because the advertizers spend so much telling us about products we don't need for problems that don't exist. I don't think they treach science in school anymore, and the Gen Y group never had to learn to keep their heap alive with used and made up parts like we did. Most are willing to learn, but they are starting late. Me, I am just out of date. I know more about old British cars, Morgans, TVR's etc. They are all just cars though.
Razc,
Interesting to read your post about coolant temperature. Like lots of others, I had noted the temperature of about 218, and, from far less knowledge came to the conclusion about efficiency and heat that you noted.
I have a trailer hitch on my Clubman and I went to an antique motorcycle rally last weekend at Niagara. Up all the big hills in central Pa, the temperature dropped as you outlined. I asked the local service/Mini dealer. I wish he had been as clear as you. He told me something about 'the second stage of the cooling fan'. Well, maybe, but I sure couldn't hear any additional fan noise and I was not running at high rpm, only about 3000. The idea of different curves of thermostat operation is a lot easier to believe
Thanks
__________________ Windfall
Joy since 4 Jun delivery
Quick question on this old thread...I have 2005 MCSc and the temp reads constantly at 3/4 way up (about 205 or so). The manual states that anything past the midpoint is hot, but from reading this forums makes me guess I should ok.
So the question is....the 200+ temps you guys are reading are taken how and where? Or are these the dash guages?
Mine is in the center (large) dial along with oil temp and pressure. The oil temp never exceed mid point.
Can someone please clarify before I make a scene at the dealer...lol
And you TRUST the Mini gauge? Ref: Speedo, Gas gauge, MPG.....
If anything, would think 200 is low. If I remember to get out my IR gun, I may look around. I was going to add a temp and a voltmeter, but as I need a slightly larger car, I'll probably just dump the Mini.
IM new to Mini but both my VW GTIs ran at 220 on the temp gauge in the car all the time. If you actually logged temps with a VAG-COM they ran anywhere from 215 to 230 depending on engine load and outside temps.
I had a scangauge for a good while and recently changed to a Garmin bluetooth thing that talks to the GPS. Both showed my car to run at abour 220 all the time. I kinda think that is the norm for smog controlled cars of all types. My MB C300 shows 218 most of the time.
In case you've never heard it, the trick to cool a hot Mini down in a hurry is to turn the A/C to Max. It opens the thermostat completely apparently and drops the temp to 180-190 in just a few minutes -- helpful when slogging along in traffic on I-4 or whatever your local headache freeway is.
I do not have a MINI guage, so I cannot comment on trusting it. Mine is aftermarket.
As to the cooling, I put in a previous post a comment about how the engine cooled when towing a trailer in the mountains of Pennsylvania, so I would agree that you can probably help it to cool by loading the cooling system, unless there is another problem...
In any case, a lot of the newer engines run really hot to comply with the newer emissions regs, so the 215 to 220 seems right. Just keep a good radiator cap on it. It needs that high pressure to keep from boiling over.
__________________ Windfall
Joy since 4 Jun delivery
Wow, there's a lot of confusion and misinformation in this thread.....
#1 - 1st gen MINIs are different than 2nd gen, this info (220* temp is normal) applies to 2nd gen only.
#2 Our 2nd gen cars do have a thermostat - it's a 2 stage device. Under normal conditions it runs the first stage, 220*. Under certain load conditions the 2nd stage opens and the temp drops further - to about 185*. When the load lightens again, it goes back up.
#3 Our water pumps are belt driven, they do not cycle on and off. However, there is a small auxiliary electric water pump that cools the turbo on shutdown - that one does cycle on and off as needed.
So, 220* is the "normal" temp, under heavy loads it may drop to 185* or so, but when the load goes away the temp goes back up to that 220* range.
This is the normal operation of the cooling system, and probably why our cars don't have temp gauges - I can imagine the phone calls from paniced owners used to cars that ran 165-185* the first time they saw their cars reading 220*.
__________________
'09 LB/LB Clubman S
'69 Jaguar XK-E
'04 Audi Allroad Twin-Turbo
MMC#580
It was certainly a surprise to me to see the water temp. plunge under load. Even more interesting was seeing it go back up as I went down the other side of the mountain as the load was reduced. I think it is a neat way to solve the problem because when the temp goes down, it also enriches the mixture, further helping detonation.
__________________ Windfall
Joy since 4 Jun delivery
Wow, there's a lot of confusion and misinformation in this thread.....
#1 - 1st gen MINIs are different than 2nd gen, this info (220* temp is normal) applies to 2nd gen only.
#2 Our 2nd gen cars do have a thermostat - it's a 2 stage device. Under normal conditions it runs the first stage, 220*. Under certain load conditions the 2nd stage opens and the temp drops further - to about 185*. When the load lightens again, it goes back up.
#3 Our water pumps are belt driven, they do not cycle on and off. However, there is a small auxiliary electric water pump that cools the turbo on shutdown - that one does cycle on and off as needed.
So, 220* is the "normal" temp, under heavy loads it may drop to 185* or so, but when the load goes away the temp goes back up to that 220* range.
This is the normal operation of the cooling system, and probably why our cars don't have temp gauges - I can imagine the phone calls from paniced owners used to cars that ran 165-185* the first time they saw their cars reading 220*.
__________________
07 MCS
Lightning Blue Metallic Paint/6-Speed Manual/Premium Package/Black Bonnet Stripes/Armrest/Sports Package/17" Web Spoke Wheels/Alta Air Filter/Craven Speed Stubby Antenna/27% tinted windows/Tinted Side Reflectors/M7 Strut Re-Inforcement Plates/M7 Aerogel turbo heatshield/Blacked-out grill, headlight and taillight rings and beltline/Scanguage II/Light In Sight.
What a great thread. I just installed the Garmin dangle and GPS that is showing me temps of 222 +- 3 degrees. Thanks for the info on the coolant temp control system. Czar cleared it up and I am comfortable with the higher temps.
Cooool
When on track avg 4-5k rpm my water temp has dropped yo
180-190 oil around 200. I assume the ECU knows you arerunning
Hard and runs the engin cooler! On the the street- 210 water.
The engineering in these MINIs never ceases to amaze me, our '07 S runs like a baby at 210-220, my 1995 Subaru had to be resuscitated if it ran anywhere near 200. Me, I'm old school, 1968 Boss Mustang, modded a bit you know, hi-rise manifolds, twin carbs, thermostats, street slicks, temps in the 180s meant it was time to add some water, from the tap, you could almost crawl into the engine compartment while working and still have open spaces to see the garage floor, even with the mid-sized v-8s, you thought maybe the Fonz might be OK, but not really, he didn't have any grease under his finger nails.
__________________ '07 R56 MCS, Pure Silver and Black
Great thread - thanks! I was wondering about the 220F temp and why it got colder driving harder.
Question: any ideas on a good setting for the over-temperature warning on my gauge? ie when should I start panicking? It's set at 240F at the moment. We're just coming into summer here (Australia) and I have a grill full of driving lights so I want to be careful!
BTW I saw a few people in this thread worried about the accuracy of gauges. For R56s, you can display the ECU's temperature for comparison - reproduced from this thread: http://www.northamericanmotoring.com...dden-menu.html
With engine running, hold down trip odometer reset button for 12 seconds. Maybe I just count fast. After about 5 or so your oil service interval will show, but keep holding. You don't even have to count to 12, just wait for the screen to change again.
Add up your VIN digits as displayed (mine was 24). You will be in menu 01.00
Press the button for about two seconds until 01.__ shows. This backs you out of the 01.__ menus so you can cycle to other menu groups.
Press button repeatedly until 19.__ appears. Wait a bit and you'll be in menu 19.00
Press the button repeatedly to display the sum of your VIN digits.
Then, hold the button down for two seconds to get out of 19.00
Press the button repeatedly until you get to 07.__ and presto! Water temp in Celsius.
__________________ pw4
R56: K-Mac camber, JCW brakes, K&N CAI, Hella 1000s, sunroof, wood,...
R56 LCI: Alta rear bar & gauges; JCW brakes, gearknob & dash; LSD; 17" RJR wheels; sunroof; Lyle wraps; stripes; Hella 500 & FF500 lights,... Chili Red Owners Club #642
by that I mean, I have been working in the Racing industry longer than some of the guys/girls on here are old 
Windfall
It's set at 240F at the moment. We're just coming into summer here (Australia) and I have a grill full of driving lights so I want to be careful! 
