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Not sure of the measured performance gains in terms of actual HP though but unscientifically I think I can get +2 to +3 mph at the end of the straight before the bus stop at WGI at WOT. Lots of other variables to consider that can account for some of this mph diff including grip in the last turn, weather, driving etc... so take this for what it is worth.
Not sure there is a W2A out on the market yet. Extra plumbing does worry me a little. If you find one, please post the link.
Forge and Helix definitely make the best. However, Helix for the most part is actively involved in group buys on NAM and you can get a great deal on one. I know I sure got one!
The biggest improvement I noticed this summer was better performance from 4K+ rpm. Definitely an increase in torque and power when you reach those higher engine speeds. You're not going to notice much difference with the coming fall/winter weather.
The best bang for your buck performance gain is a custom ECU tune from Jan @ RMW and an intercooler. Next on the list would be a turboback exhaust, but that's gonna cost ya a lot more. No gimmicks or slimy marketing there bud
Forge and Helix definitely make the best. However, Helix for the most part is actively involved in group buys on NAM and you can get a great deal on one. I know I sure got one!
The best bang for your buck performance gain is a custom ECU tune from Jan @ RMW and an intercooler. Next on the list would be a turboback exhaust, but that's gonna cost ya a lot more. No gimmicks or slimy marketing there bud
Next on my mod list is turbo or catback exhaust then the intercooler. Trying to figure out if the $800 makes sense for the gain back vs W2A. Hopefully somebody will have something data wise. Appreciate it Shane
__________________ Tim Shackelford & 'Augie'
07' MCS Chili Red with lotsa mods and more on the way......
Just saw a SPEED program that stated that for every single degree drop in air intake temp there was an increase of 1-1.5 HP! They didn't mention torque, but I suspect it's probably about the same. On turbo MCS's the HP would be felt at higher rpm, but the torque should be felt right at spool up. I've lowered my temps 20-25deg over ambient (see mods in sig.) and can definitely feel the difference.
__________________ BEELZEBUB-DSOC #506th
'08 MCSm, DS/B, LSD. 17X7 Konig's, NM/RacDyn F/R STB's, H-Sport 25.5mm RSB & Camber Arms, NM Springs, SS Lines, End Links & Torque Arm Bushing, Koni Yellows, EBC Brakes. RMW TUNE, Helix FMIC w/TD, DoS CAI, Audi DV, Alta 3" Cat-Bac, Alta Hard Inlet Tube, NM Boost Tubes & SSA, 42DD/BSH OCC System, RECARO.
Next on my mod list is turbo or catback exhaust then the intercooler. Trying to figure out if the $800 makes sense for the gain back vs W2A. Hopefully somebody will have something data wise. Appreciate it Shane
I'd say for right now put the extra money into the turbo back, then when next spring comes get the intercooler. The IC isn't really going to do much now with the weather getting crappy.
Just saw a SPEED program that stated that for every single degree drop in air intake temp there was an increase of 1-1.5 HP! They didn't mention torque, but I suspect it's probably about the same. On turbo MCS's the HP would be felt at higher rpm, but the torque should be felt right at spool up. I've lowered my temps 20-25deg over ambient (see mods in sig.) and can definitely feel the difference.
Wow, 20-25 degree drop w/o an IC. That is nice. And I had thought the IC was important in dropping the intake temp.
Last edited by slinger688; 09-30-2009 at 01:51 PM.
Modern Mini Mag claims about 18bhp with a Forge intercooler (this month's issue). This seems pretty high to me for a single mod without other upgrades. Anyone know how accurate this might be?
__________________ 2009 MINI Cooper S
Midnight black, white roof, white stripes
sport | comfort | convenience | 6spd | Richbrook Antenna | Forge BOV | DoS noisemaker delete | JCW shift/ebrake knobs | Redline Goods boots
I've lowered my temps 20-25deg over ambient (see mods in sig.) and can definitely feel the difference.
25 over ambient?
Wait till you get an IC and they hover between 2-10 degrees above ambient ...its a huge difference! And wait till you feel the difference with a properly tuned water/meth kit....dramatic difference.
__________________ 2006 MINI Cooper S JCW GP--GP#1599 -Stock...I think?? 2008 MINI Cooper S R56--Astro Black/White--Gone -JCW Turbo | Aquamist HFS-3 Meth injection | RMW AP Tune | Helix FMIC | DDM CAI | Riss Racing Catless DP+Invidia Exhaust
Wait till you get an IC and they hover between 2-10 degrees above ambient ...its a huge difference! And wait till you feel the difference with a properly tuned water/meth kit....dramatic difference.
The R56 MCS already has an IC. My ScanGauge is showing only 3-6deg over ambient as is. A bigger IC ain't worth the money. As for meth/water, no thanks. My car gets driven, not raced.
__________________ BEELZEBUB-DSOC #506th
'08 MCSm, DS/B, LSD. 17X7 Konig's, NM/RacDyn F/R STB's, H-Sport 25.5mm RSB & Camber Arms, NM Springs, SS Lines, End Links & Torque Arm Bushing, Koni Yellows, EBC Brakes. RMW TUNE, Helix FMIC w/TD, DoS CAI, Audi DV, Alta 3" Cat-Bac, Alta Hard Inlet Tube, NM Boost Tubes & SSA, 42DD/BSH OCC System, RECARO.
The R56 MCS already has an IC. My ScanGauge is showing only 3-6deg over ambient as is. A bigger IC ain't worth the money. As for meth/water, no thanks. My car gets driven, not raced.
lol....I ment aftermarket IC.
And yes its worth every penny. Sure you might be 3-6 above ambient when cruising, but under acceleration that probably shoots up immediately, whereas mine stays constant. I used to think a IC was worthless too...so far from the truth as I found out. IC and a downpipe give the 2 single biggest bolt on performance gains.
And just cuz you don't race doesn't mean a water/meth wouldn't be beneficial to you.
To each his own though....
__________________ 2006 MINI Cooper S JCW GP--GP#1599 -Stock...I think?? 2008 MINI Cooper S R56--Astro Black/White--Gone -JCW Turbo | Aquamist HFS-3 Meth injection | RMW AP Tune | Helix FMIC | DDM CAI | Riss Racing Catless DP+Invidia Exhaust
Wow, 20-25 degree drop w/o an IC. That is nice. And I had thought the IC was important in dropping the intake temp.
The R56 MCS has a OEM IC at the bottom of the radiator. The intake air temps I was seeing before mods were actually 20-40deg over ambient. I stated 20-25 just to be on the safe side.
__________________ BEELZEBUB-DSOC #506th
'08 MCSm, DS/B, LSD. 17X7 Konig's, NM/RacDyn F/R STB's, H-Sport 25.5mm RSB & Camber Arms, NM Springs, SS Lines, End Links & Torque Arm Bushing, Koni Yellows, EBC Brakes. RMW TUNE, Helix FMIC w/TD, DoS CAI, Audi DV, Alta 3" Cat-Bac, Alta Hard Inlet Tube, NM Boost Tubes & SSA, 42DD/BSH OCC System, RECARO.
And yes its worth every penny. Sure you might be 3-6 above ambient when cruising, but under acceleration that probably shoots up immediately, whereas mine stays constant. I used to think a IC was worthless too...so far from the truth as I found out. IC and a downpipe give the 2 single biggest bolt on performance gains.
And just cuz you don't race doesn't mean a water/meth wouldn't be beneficial to you.
To each his own though....
How right you are! The M7 down tube and 3" cat bac were my first engine mods. The difference was dramatic. Right, too, about the temp increase on heavy acceleration, but it's only rising to 10-12deg over. All my mods have been aimed at increased air flow into and out of the engine w/o getting in trouble with warranty/CARB (). MINI ON!
__________________ BEELZEBUB-DSOC #506th
'08 MCSm, DS/B, LSD. 17X7 Konig's, NM/RacDyn F/R STB's, H-Sport 25.5mm RSB & Camber Arms, NM Springs, SS Lines, End Links & Torque Arm Bushing, Koni Yellows, EBC Brakes. RMW TUNE, Helix FMIC w/TD, DoS CAI, Audi DV, Alta 3" Cat-Bac, Alta Hard Inlet Tube, NM Boost Tubes & SSA, 42DD/BSH OCC System, RECARO.
The R56 MCS has a OEM IC at the bottom of the radiator. The intake air temps I was seeing before mods were actually 20-40deg over ambient. I stated 20-25 just to be on the safe side.
I also meant upgraded IC to bring down the intake temps. The original is a little over taxed during summer and during spirited driving.
Sorry but I have not noticed the numbers that you claim from some insulation. Unless you are comparing idling and driving.
My intake temps with aftermarket IC are quite in line with ThumperMCS at 1-3 degrees F above ambient which driving above 40 mph for a little while. W/O the aftermarket IC, I saw intake tempatures around 6 to 10 degrees F above ambient, also driving above 40 mph for a while. Insulation only gives you a slight drop, perhaps 1 degree F.
You only get 20-25 degrees F or more above ambient intake temps when you idle for a while or turn off the engine while it is hot. On subsequent startup the intake temps rise due to heat soak.
I also meant upgraded IC to bring down the intake temps. The original is a little over taxed during summer and during spirited driving.
Sorry but I have not noticed the numbers that you claim from some insulation. Unless you are comparing idling and driving.
My intake temps with aftermarket IC are quite in line with ThumperMCS at 1-3 degrees F above ambient which driving above 40 mph for a little while. W/O the aftermarket IC, I saw intake tempatures around 6 to 10 degrees F above ambient, also driving above 40 mph for a while. Insulation only gives you a slight drop, perhaps 1 degree F.
You only get 20-25 degrees F or more above ambient intake temps when you idle for a while or turn off the engine while it is hot. On subsequent startup the intake temps rise due to heat soak.
I disagree. The biggest temp drop came from increased cool air flow into the engine bay from the M7 scoop. I realized the air intake tube was still picking up heat from the bay and wrapped it in aluminum faced thermal tape to see what would happen. Also, those high temps were while driving at speeds below 45mph, not stopped. The temps are not "claimed", they came off the OBD/ScanGauge. BTW, all air to air IC's cease to function when stopped.
__________________ BEELZEBUB-DSOC #506th
'08 MCSm, DS/B, LSD. 17X7 Konig's, NM/RacDyn F/R STB's, H-Sport 25.5mm RSB & Camber Arms, NM Springs, SS Lines, End Links & Torque Arm Bushing, Koni Yellows, EBC Brakes. RMW TUNE, Helix FMIC w/TD, DoS CAI, Audi DV, Alta 3" Cat-Bac, Alta Hard Inlet Tube, NM Boost Tubes & SSA, 42DD/BSH OCC System, RECARO.
I disagree. The biggest temp drop came from increased cool air flow into the engine bay from the M7 scoop. I realized the air intake tube was still picking up heat from the bay and wrapped it in aluminum faced thermal tape to see what would happen. Also, those high temps were while driving at speeds below 45mph, not stopped. The temps are not "claimed", they came off the OBD/ScanGauge. BTW, all air to air IC's cease to function when stopped.
Then we will just disagree with no issues. I do not find your temp findings accurate.
BTW, many of us have wrapped the intakes and have them wrapped since R56 came out so that is not new. All temps are also measured using scanguage as well.
For the record, my scangauge showed my intake temperature at 175 degrees F under full boost (20psi) just after my second dyno pull making 200+ fwhp. At the time, everything on my car was stock - 2009 Factory JCW.
I just replaced the stock FMIC with a Forge unit two days ago and have not seen over 105 F since.
Any info on the dyno after the Forge FMIC install?
What are your temps above ambient at WOT? When I finish a 30 minute track session with a Helix FMIC, I run about 20-30 degrees F above ambient, which I though was really good. This is from repeated WOT and bouncing off redline etc.
I literally just put the forge on the other day. I'm going to try to return to the previous dyno shop this Thursday... although I may be slightly biased now - I also installed a Forge intercooler charge pipe (rubber), a noise maker blockoff plug, and a Craven high-flo stock filter replacement.
BEELZEBUB-DSOC #506th
...its a huge difference! And wait till you feel the difference with a properly tuned water/meth kit....dramatic difference.
). MINI ON!
