You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community, at no cost, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is free, fast and simple, so please join our community today!
So what about the K25/K26/RS2 as a hybrid upgrade for the JCW turbo? Are the shaft sizes similar?
Umsports; can you get a stock Cooper S turbo compressor map from BorgWarner?
I'm working on it but at the moment the US guys aren't able to find one. They did however compare the factory 'S' turbo to a slightly smaller K03s. The 'S' turbo is 1mm smaller on the compressor inducer and ~1.75mm smaller on the exducer than the K03S. K03S can make ~210-220whp w/a lot of bolt-ons on the Audi TT's so I would assume with it being slightly smaller that 205-210whp would be the "max" you would be able to push the 'S' turbo and that would be straining the hell out of it.
I'm working on it but at the moment the US guys aren't able to find one. They did however compare the factory 'S' turbo to a slightly smaller K03s. The 'S' turbo is 1mm smaller on the compressor inducer and ~1.75mm smaller on the exducer than the K03S. K03S can make ~210-220whp w/a lot of bolt-ons on the Audi TT's so I would assume with it being slightly smaller that 205-210whp would be the "max" you would be able to push the 'S' turbo and that would be straining the hell out of it.
I'd agree with you but the Mini 1.6 is much higher static compression than the 1.8t (10.6:1 vs. 9.3:1) Of course now we're dealing with different displacement as well. So that's not a very good reference point.
From what I've seen of claims by people with bolt on mods without more boost/programming, I would think that pushing the limits of the "S" turbo you should be able to see a bit (but not much) more than 210hp. Of course, I'm guessing the factory boost is already on the high-end of the sweet spot in the compressor map. If that's the case, upping it to 18-20psi is going to be outside of the turbo's efficiency range. A BIG intercooler will help some, but I think that a turbo upgrade is going to be the way forward.
I'm not saying you can't get more but it's at the expense of the turbo and you are correct on requiring a FMIC as well because it's pushed beyond its efficiency range. Also, on some of the dyno's I've seen there has has been an additional correction factor added in to inflate the numbers. Is there a dyno thread where I can see what people have made so far or is everything scattered in various threads?
I'm not saying you can't get more but it's at the expense of the turbo and you are correct on requiring a FMIC as well because it's pushed beyond its efficiency range. Also, on some of the dyno's I've seen there has has been an additional correction factor added in to inflate the numbers. Is there a dyno thread where I can see what people have made so far or is everything scattered in various threads?
Everything is scattered, but a specific dyno thread is a good idea. Just to add to the scatter, I have attached my dyno thread. This is with an RMW tune, samco intercooler hoses, an Alta CAI and Alta FMIC.
I make basically 200hp and 230tq to the wheel.
Edit: My boost peaks out around 19psi. It ramps up to around 16 immediately and then progresses pretty quickly to the 18-19 range.
__________________
'07 MCS LB/B, One or two stock parts left...
Heres another scatter for ya... go to www.car-part.com and search for 2009 BMW Mini | Turbochargers. There are several for sale, one of which is supposedly from a 2008 JCW for $850. Whether or not that is a 'factory' JCW or just a Cooper S is debatable.
Everything is scattered, but a specific dyno thread is a good idea. Just to add to the scatter, I have attached my dyno thread. This is with an RMW tune, samco intercooler hoses, an Alta CAI and Alta FMIC.
I make basically 200hp and 230tq to the wheel.
On the bottom of your dyno graph it says SAE 1.0 for the first run and on the second it says SAE 1.01 on the other. That means for whatever reason the dyno operator added in a 1% increase in power that the dyno did not record. Not sure if this makes sense but I've seen this on a lot of the dyno graphs posted and its erroneous for them to do that. It's misleading on the real numbers the car actually put down. So for you it was increase in 2whp and 2.5wtq. It's not HUGE but there is no reason for adding extra CF for a before and after pull. The only thing that changes CF is temperature, humidity and altitude. Since neither of those changed there was no reason to increase CF other than to inflate the numbers.
Heres another scatter for ya... go to www.car-part.com and search for 2009 BMW Mini | Turbochargers. There are several for sale, one of which is supposedly from a 2008 JCW for $850. Whether or not that is a 'factory' JCW or just a Cooper S is debatable.
So these are new units? Do they give any sort of warranty? That's pretty cheap as long as the shaft play is minimal.
On the bottom of your dyno graph it says SAE 1.0 for the first run and on the second it says SAE 1.01 on the other. That means for whatever reason the dyno operator added in a 1% increase in power that the dyno did not record. Not sure if this makes sense but I've seen this on a lot of the dyno graphs posted and its erroneous for them to do that. It's misleading on the real numbers the car actually put down. So for you it was increase in 2whp and 2.5wtq. It's not HUGE but there is no reason for adding extra CF for a before and after pull. The only thing that changes CF is temperature, humidity and altitude. Since neither of those changed there was no reason to increase CF other than to inflate the numbers.
I am pretty sure that is the WinPEP software doing that .01 correction and not the operator. I have the software installed as well as the actual raw dyno files. If you look there is actually a slight difference between the conditions between the pulls. I think that is the dyno correcting for that slight difference, not the actual operator. It's like it is trying to normalize the data from the 2 runs.
I have attached an uncorrected dyno print out, and the numbers are like 1/1 lower than the SAE corrected values.
__________________
'07 MCS LB/B, One or two stock parts left...
I gotcha. I've noticed some with a higher value and it has always pissed me off when some tuners/shops start adding CF to boost their numbers.
I hate to post this here but if you guys can take a quick look at this picture and tell me what the exact name of this hose is..
I've colored it in pink and it normally off the turbo inlet and into the crankcase. Crankcase breather hose? Something along those lines but I'm not sure and can't find it.
So is anyone going to make an attempt at using larger turbine and compressor wheels along with internal maching to accomodate the larger components? This is what the U.K. guys did along with having a larger diameter turbo inlet. That seems like the way to get the most power, but maybe we're afraid of pushing the limits of the stock R56 pistons/conrods?
I gotcha. I've noticed some with a higher value and it has always pissed me off when some tuners/shops start adding CF to boost their numbers.
I hate to post this here but if you guys can take a quick look at this picture and tell me what the exact name of this hose is..
I've colored it in pink and it normally off the turbo inlet and into the crankcase. Crankcase breather hose? Something along those lines but I'm not sure and can't find it.
EGR means exhaust gas recirculating and it has nothing to do with this engine.
the hose is for crankcase breathing.
guys i ve been following you for a while, everything is ok and somehow a big turbo is needed, but have you ever consider upgrading the other things for reliability - which JCW already did - such as reducing compression ratio, forged con rods and maybe an engine management system?
EGR means exhaust gas recirculating and it has nothing to do with this engine.
the hose is for crankcase breathing.
guys i ve been following you for a while, everything is ok and somehow a big turbo is needed, but have you ever consider upgrading the other things for reliability - which JCW already did - such as reducing compression ratio, forged con rods and maybe an engine management system?
There is no readily available EMS. Believe me.. I would be all over it but its not available at this time. I wish there was a simple system like Nistune, Hondata, DSM Link or even an AEM or Haltech but nothing is available. If you find something be sure to let everyone know.
There is no readily available EMS. Believe me.. I would be all over it but its not available at this time. I wish there was a simple system like Nistune, Hondata, DSM Link or even an AEM or Haltech but nothing is available. If you find something be sure to let everyone know.
there will probably never be an engine management system for this car. after everyone has done their testing even after yanking every electronic system in this car people can not run megasquirt(losing the function of your key and all your dash displays also). the car not only has chips that control this car there is also hardware that the motor will not defeat. with this motor we will be doing the same things that all of the VW and audi guys have been doing, you simply flash a map onto the stock ecu. the car will not let it go over a certain boost level....why? no one knows yet but i doubt anyone will ever be able to put a gt28rs to its full potential....dont get me wrong i want to see it and do it myself but this motor is locked down.
mazda reacently offered 80k per year and lead tech spot to anyone who can tune their new mazdaspeed 3 and the direct injection system.
BTW has anyone looked into doing a head spacer? people who wanted to lower compression lets bring in some VW know how lol.....o god run for the hills
EGR means exhaust gas recirculating and it has nothing to do with this engine.
the hose is for crankcase breathing.
guys i ve been following you for a while, everything is ok and somehow a big turbo is needed, but have you ever consider upgrading the other things for reliability - which JCW already did - such as reducing compression ratio, forged con rods and maybe an engine management system?
And don't forget stronger head and gearbox. It would seem to be sort of silly to upgrade the engine to Jack-The-Bear status only to break the gearbox...
__________________ 2009 John Cooper Works Clubman: Pure Silver over Horizon Blue, Pure Silver C-Pillars, Mirrors, Hood Stripes, Cold Weather, Premium, Rear Spoiler, Front & Rear Fog Lamps, Bluetooth/USB/iPod
nm Engineering: Short Shift Adapter and Assembly Cover (06/11)
MiniDoMore: Hitch, Drawbar, Cargo Platform and Box (06/11)
And don't forget stronger head and gearbox. It would seem to be sort of silly to upgrade the engine to Jack-The-Bear status only to break the gearbox...
you think the gearbox will break? i think it will hold 300. the clutch will need to be replaced but i think the getrag will be fine
you think the gearbox will break? i think it will hold 300. the clutch will need to be replaced but i think the getrag will be fine
Then why did BMW uprate the Getrag for the JCW? That says to me that they canceled out their safety factor and needed stronger internals. Otherwise, why do it?
__________________ 2009 John Cooper Works Clubman: Pure Silver over Horizon Blue, Pure Silver C-Pillars, Mirrors, Hood Stripes, Cold Weather, Premium, Rear Spoiler, Front & Rear Fog Lamps, Bluetooth/USB/iPod
nm Engineering: Short Shift Adapter and Assembly Cover (06/11)
MiniDoMore: Hitch, Drawbar, Cargo Platform and Box (06/11)
__________________ 2009 John Cooper Works Clubman: Pure Silver over Horizon Blue, Pure Silver C-Pillars, Mirrors, Hood Stripes, Cold Weather, Premium, Rear Spoiler, Front & Rear Fog Lamps, Bluetooth/USB/iPod
nm Engineering: Short Shift Adapter and Assembly Cover (06/11)
MiniDoMore: Hitch, Drawbar, Cargo Platform and Box (06/11)
Last edited by flatlander_48; 10-24-2009 at 07:21 PM.
There are lots of road tests where all of the information shows up, but this document is the original Press Release from the Mothership. Only problem is that sometimes you have to separate the informative wheat from the wordsmithing chafe...
__________________ 2009 John Cooper Works Clubman: Pure Silver over Horizon Blue, Pure Silver C-Pillars, Mirrors, Hood Stripes, Cold Weather, Premium, Rear Spoiler, Front & Rear Fog Lamps, Bluetooth/USB/iPod
nm Engineering: Short Shift Adapter and Assembly Cover (06/11)
MiniDoMore: Hitch, Drawbar, Cargo Platform and Box (06/11)
