You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community, at no cost, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is free, fast and simple, so please join our community today!
I would be interested in a jcw turbo... Wonder if a jcw gone hybrid will make better power or potential over a stock turbo... I remember reading somewhere that the jcw had a bigger openings compared to the stock turbo...
The only thing I can confirm is that the inlet is 2mm larger. Other than that I have no idea so what I did was ask for any and all technical info on the 'S' and JCW turbo as well as any compressor graphs/efficiency tables so I can plot out the "theoretical" max of both units.
Does anyone know what ever happened to the OP? I understand he sold the car, but why?
He did sell the car. It didn't blow up or anything he just decided he didn't want to push the R56 that far. He never got it mapped specifically for the hybrid. He didn't want to be one of the first people to do it and decided to go back to the prev gen Mini. The hybrid turbo was for sale but not sure what happened to it.
He did sell the car. It didn't blow up or anything he just decided he didn't want to push the R56 that far. He never got it mapped specifically for the hybrid. He didn't want to be one of the first people to do it and decided to go back to the prev gen Mini. The hybrid turbo was for sale but not sure what happened to it.
I wonder if there was a known range of power that the Mini's engine needed to be upgraded with higher strength pistons and rods. I'm sure there isn't much difference between what was said for the R53 engine and what can be said about the R56 engine.
Gees this quest for power is such a money pit. I'm stayin' away but watching closely!
Ok so what I know is this. The JCW has a larger inlet and a K04 compressor wheel as opposed to a K03. I was told the backside is supposed to be larger too but they were unable to confirm it with 100% certainty. I'm supposed to get a call from another BW engineer sometime today with the exact specs. I'm working on it guys!!
Anybody try to source a turbo from wrecking yards?
I'm pretty sure a few R56 "S" cars have met untimely demises. There have got to be units out there to be had for less than new prices. Also, here in the US we have that danged MAF unit that makes it a bit more of a mess.
I am working with a somewhat local turbo shop to upgrade a stock MCS turbo to above JCW specs. So far the shop feels that after the upgrade the turbo should be able to produce 25psi and 320hp. They told me they had upgraded many k03 turbos and have been doing them for 5 years now. I am just waiting for the salvage turbo to come in so I can send it to them.
I didnt mean to say I was going to run 25psi on the stock engine only that the k03 can be upgraded to produce that kind of boost. But as has been already said until we make a couple go pop no one can know what the engine will be able to take. Sorry, It won't be me, the car is my DD, unless the stock internals can't take 20psi because that is my personal goal.
Quote:
Originally Posted by countryboyshane
25psi is just too much and that's coming from Jan @ RMW.
One other thing to note is that the upgraded turbo should not run out of steam close to redline, which should allow a higher hp number than what we are currently seeing with just the stock turbo and a tune.
Ok guys here's the deal. The factory turbo has a 37mm Compressor Wheel and the JCW has a 41mm Compressor Wheel. That's a lot larger than I anticipated. I also have a compressor map for the JCW turbo in a PDF if anyone wants it let me know. I was looking into the "hybrid" option but considering the JCW turbo is a bolt-on affair I see this becoming a popular route. If anyone is interested in looking into it more let me know and I'll send you the compressor map and other pictures.
I've gotten a lot of PM's for this! I'm excited that others are as pumped as I am. As it looks on the Compressor Map the MAX boost you could efficiently run is ~22.5lbs. It's not worth it when you get outside ~65-70% efficiency. IAT's get too high and you're overworking the turbo.
This is what's happening when guys are running 17.5-18lbs on the stock 'S' turbo and are primarily getting an increase in tq not hp with anything beyond 15.5-16lbs.
Ideal for longevity and performance with the stock 'S' turbo ~15-17lbs and JCW 20-21lbs.
Keep in mind that's PEAK and the OPTIMAL efficiency islands are at ~15.5lbs for the 'S' and 20-20.5lbs for the JCW. Not that you can't run more but you've gone outside the OPTIMAL ranges for the turbo. Going higher will cause a surge in IAT's because the turbo is working beyond what it was designed for. Hope that helps!
Good news; looks like BorgWarner gave the JCW car a 400CFM turbo compressor. The stock JCW turbo at 19psi can flow .19 m/s^3 at %60 efficiency producing ~270 Crank HP | 400CFM and 33lb/min.
In comparing the JCW compressor map to other brands/makes sizes I've determined that the stock JCW compressor is similar to the following turbo compressor maps:
Garret
T3-55 to 60 trim
GT22 '52 trim
Mitsubishi
TD04-15G
KKK
K24-70gga
I've found no compressor map which makes the K03/K04 turbo compressors more effective than the JCW, and hence I've now completely rulled out going to a K03/K04 as an upgrade to the compressor. This does not rule out compressor housings however... K03/4s have lesser compressor map flows than the stock JCW turbo compressor map. This shouldnt rule out a hybrid upgrade for a non-JCW CooperS, but expect peak performance of about 250 crank HP from a K04.
I've also determined a decent like/company turbo for further consideration of a hybrid turbocharger to be the following:
KKK
RS2-2672 (525 CFM and ~350hp crank at 19PSI)
*This turbo is found in Audi RS2 cars (1994?) which came ~2.2L inline 5 cyl. Honda boys seem to like this turbo. I myself think it may be a little out of date for these times... but still. Audi ran the RS2 at 1.4bar for 315 crank horsepower. This turbo can probably make ~350 crank with our cars at 1.4Bar and can also flow well at 2bar if the need is there. I wonder how well of a boltup / hybrid this turbo could be.
Garrett
GT28RS (480 CFM and ~320hp crank at 19PSI)
GT25R40R (560 CFM and ~375hp crank at 19PSI)
Everyone who read this thread has read or seen the GT28RS which doesnt exactly fall short of the competition. This turbo would be a 'modest' ~50crank HP increase from the stock JCW turbo. For ~100HP, the GT25R40R compressor is your baby.
When you say that the max for a JCW turbo is ~20psi, do you mean compared to the max figure of 17psi while not overboosing or the overboost figure of 19.5-20.5psi?
i.e. Sould someone tuning the JCW, boost the turbo from 17:20 to 20:23 psi?
Quote:
Originally Posted by umsports
As it looks on the Compressor Map the MAX boost you could efficiently run is ~22.5lbs. It's not worth it when you get outside ~65-70% efficiency. IAT's get too high and you're overworking the turbo.
Ideal for longevity and performance with the stock JCW turbo 20-21lbs.
Keep in mind that's PEAK and the OPTIMAL efficiency islands are at 20-20.5lbs for the JCW. Not that you can't run more but you've gone outside the OPTIMAL ranges for the turbo. Going higher will cause a surge in IAT's because the turbo is working beyond what it was designed for. Hope that helps!
Again I'm just playing with numbers and looking at what some other cars with similar maps have done. The JCW turbo looks to be most efficient between 19-20lbs. I wouldn't run more than that either way because I would bet you are close to the limits of pump gas. I would keep the max boost at ~20lbs. 22-23ish would probably need a little help from race gas and I doubt the gains would be that impressive. Keep in mind the the turbo won't hold that boost level to redline.
There probably isnt much more the JCW cars can actually do with the stock turbo. I'd say with all the fixins we still wont be seeing more than 225-230whp from the turbo (275 crank). We can however improve our odds with the JCW using aftermarket boltons to make the turbo run slightly more efficient than the stock ~210whp.
Now, replacing a Cooper S turbo with a JCW turbo could get you another 30whp. Depending for some; this may be a good upgrade path to have but honestly it still isnt enough.
Garrett
GT28RS (480 CFM and ~320hp crank at 19PSI)
GT25R40R (560 CFM and ~375hp crank at 19PSI)
So the GT25 flows more air than the larger GT28RS?
Also, they don't make a GT2540.....just a GT2554 and a GT2560.
__________________ 2006 MINI Cooper S JCW GP--GP#1599 -Stock...I think?? 2008 MINI Cooper S R56--Astro Black/White--Gone -JCW Turbo | Aquamist HFS-3 Meth injection | RMW AP Tune | Helix FMIC | DDM CAI | Riss Racing Catless DP+Invidia Exhaust
[quote = umsports; 2902553] Ok chicos este es el trato. El turbo de fábrica tiene una rueda de 37mm compresor y el JCW tiene una rueda de 41mm compresor. Eso es mucho más grande que yo esperaba. También tengo un mapa de compresor para el turbo JCW en un archivo PDF si alguien lo quiere, hágamelo saber. Estaba buscando en "híbrido", pero teniendo en cuenta la opción de turbo JCW es un cerrojo sobre el asunto veo esta convirtiendo en una ruta popular. Si alguien está interesado en mirar en más, hágamelo saber y le enviaré el mapa del compresor y otras imágenes. [/ Quote]
I'm emailing it to ya now but "unclemeat" did everyone a huge favor by uploading it to this thread for all to see. Scroll up to post # 166.
MODERATORS! Is there any way you guys could "sticky" the JCW Compressor Map? I think it's information that everyone needs to view not just the participants in the thread. Thanks!
There probably isnt much more the JCW cars can actually do with the stock turbo. I'd say with all the fixins we still wont be seeing more than 225-230whp from the turbo (275 crank). We can however improve our odds with the JCW using aftermarket boltons to make the turbo run slightly more efficient than the stock ~210whp.
Now, replacing a Cooper S turbo with a JCW turbo could get you another 30whp. Depending for some; this may be a good upgrade path to have but honestly it still isnt enough.
I like you. That's exactly what I think as well. I do however think that some 'S' guys such as myself would consider an easy 25-35whp gain the ideal upgrade! If I planned to keep this car for years then I wouldn't worry too much about this and go straight on to a twin scroll S247 from Borg Warner and call it a day. But this kind of jump gives a lot of people a reason to not pay the extra money for the JCW when you can pay ~$1500 for the turbo and ~$750 for a tune and never touch the car again. I would bet you could recoup most of the cost of the turbo when/if you ever sold your r56. I just don't want to go heavy with modding until the warranty is gone because of the hassle of R&R'ing everything but only needing to remove the turbo would be nice. It's quite easy to remove on this car and it may not even be necessary because I was told that they should be in the same housing.
But with my SRT-4, stock i would see a 15psi spike and taper off to to 12 redline.
After stage 2, I adjusted the waste gate to spike 20psi, and hold 15.5 to redline.
Untuned I gained 4mph in the 1/4. A substantial increase. Tuned would have yielded another 2-3mph.
There might be more in the JCW, if we can get the boost to hold at that 19psi mark to redline(much like the EVO guys do with their tunes), granted they have a much bigger turbo.
But I agree, I think a maxed out regular S(stock turbo) and JCW, the difference will only be at most 25whp.
I would really like to see orangecrush dyno his on a dynojet, lol.
Laser Blue/White MCS delivered 3/8/07. Off lease 5/17/09.
