You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community, at no cost, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is free, fast and simple, so please join our community today!
Just droped off the MCS to have a Quaife and Clutchmasters stage 3 w/lightened flywheel installed and on the drive home I was pondering this question/
When adding a LDS such as the Quaife do you need the DCS for traction or is this redundant?
I guess I am not up to speed as to everything that the DCS does other than traction and brakeing, but what is everyone else doing with this setup.
The ASC+T controlls traction such as too much wheel spin. On cars that also have the optional DSC (on top of the ASC+T) you have stability control which does interesting things with the brakes to keep you under control when cornering.
Basically DSC is a safety feature that you should always have on when driving on the streets (autocross and the track are a different story). ASC+T you usually want on except when you need to accelerate fast (like a left turn from a stop sign when there isn't much break in the traffic). Unfortunatly, if you have DSC you can only turn of ASC+T off by turning off DSC too, so I turn it back on again as soon as possible.
In my (admittedly not very expert) opinion, no LSD, factory LSD or Quaife LSD doesn't really change anything above. LSD's ability to transfer power to whichever front wheel still has traction lowers the chances of spinning the wheels but does not change when you would turn ASC+T (and DSC) off or leave them on.
i've the quaife, but NOT the DSC. i can assure you however that the quaife is unnecessary (read useless) unless i switch off ASC - the traction control kicks in pretty quickly and will kill the drive, not caring if one wheel or two is slipping.
if i'm pulling out briskly and entering the flow of traffic the ASC can really hurt my timing pretty badly so I always leave it off. of course it kills an autocross run on launch!
the quandary is the potential loss of the yaw detection and skid control added by the DSC, which i reckon must be pretty handy.
my guess is that if you took the trouble to put the quaife in, you are probably headed for enough car control practice to make the DSC optional - perhaps except for 2nd drivers?
__________________
Charlie Thompson
'04 MCS, Works
NER SCCA - STX
Quaife, H&R Coil Overs, LCA, Rear Sway, Webb Camber Plates, Borla Race, and Cupholder Delete. Kosei K1 at 15x7 +38. Tuning by Turner Motorsport of Amesbury MA.
o.k....here is another variation. i have DCS and factory LSD. (quaiffe to be added later) on the street, i normally leave the DSC on. if i have to turn into heavy traffic (where i might need to accelerate quickly), i switch it off. when in intervenes, it cuts power abruptly and can lead to some wide-eyed moments. on the track, i switch it off. i have run w/ it on and it doesn't interfere too badly on most tracks. however, when trail braking (which i don't do often) or in a perfect 4-wheel drift on a fast sweeper, the unwanted addition of brake pressure is nasty! i will assume that you haven't added the quaiffe and lightened flywheel to be a fast grocery getter. if in doubt, start with it on while running a 8/10's and slowly get up to speed. find out where and when the computer thinks that it is a better driver than you. either turn it off or leave it on after you know what it wants to do.....good luck, greg
That’s a couple of interesting opinions!
I live in North Ga. about 1hr from the GAP, I usually make between 30-50 mountain runs each year.
My previous car was(gave to my son minus go fast goodies) 92 Miata with an SC, Air to air IC, KYB AGX, large sways, big brakes, and way too much stuff to name.
True the car was over 200whp, but the car was purposely built for handling or racing through the mountains, I have never “tracked” either car but have ran several BMWCCA events or high speed driving schools.
My idea for the MSC was about the same, handling, with a touch of extra power, which actually got out of hand with the Miata.
Anyway, I never had an LSD in the Miata and I guess I didn’t really miss it and learned to drive it without it.
I wonder if I could have had a MCS without DCS would that have changed my ownership experience.
I tend to be a threshold braker as that is what I learned in the Miata, maybe a good excuse to take some more schools.
This is going to be a challenge as I think that I am going to have to re-learn to drive the car w/o DCS.
Last edited by ChiliSteve; 03-24-2008 at 05:02 PM.
Reason: Punctuation
In real life the traction control should not intrude as abruptly with the LSD. That being said, it will still come on as noted. The best course of action would be to leave the DSC on for the other benefits and learn to modulate the throttle at start. While under power the traction control really shouldn't intrude unless you really floor it coming out of a fairly slow corner with more HP than a stock MCS has.
One other thing to consider is getting a custom tune from RMW, or similiar tuner, that has the capability of greatly decreasing the sensitivity of the traction control
One other thing to consider is getting a custom tune from RMW, or similiar tuner, that has the capability of greatly decreasing the sensitivity of the traction control[/quote]
As of yet, The only mods are DDMWorks 15% pulley,air box and Invidia exhaust.
After the clutch and LSD Dave at DDM is going to tune as he is closer to me than RMW, so that might be one of the things tweked.
DSC with the quaife is worthless, if you have enuff power it just wears out your brakes...i suggest turning it off and leaving it there...
and the debate continues........................DSC will only intrude if you are "out of control"/over-understeering. And the traction control should not be a factor if you have the lsd as the limit of traction is greatly increased.
and the debate continues........................DSC will only intrude if you are "out of control"/over-understeering. And the traction control should not be a factor if you have the lsd as the limit of traction is greatly increased.
it is increased, however so has the power....hehe in my application....dsc bad...very bad...
Recently installed Quaife LSD and Clutch Master Stage 4 with flywheel. Tested the car out 3 days ago at the autoX track. Somehow the DSC light lite up when the car reach over 105mph. I couldn't even turn it back on until I restarted the car. It happened all 4 sessions. Anyway know why is that?
__________________
06 R53-Alta V2 15% pulley, Craven speed 2% Crank Pulley, Schrick Cam, Megan Header, 550 injectors, M7 OCC, Alta V2 intercooler, K&N Typhoon CAI, Magnaflow exhaust, Quaife LSD, Clutch Master Stage 4/Flywheel, M7 Strutbar, M7 USS, H-Sport 27mm front swaybar, Alta 22mm rear swaybar. Alta endlinks, Alta rear control arms, Alta PSRS, Megan Coilover, Ground Control spring, Wilwood 6 piston BBK.
I always have DSC off. I find that when approaching the limit handling wise the DSC programming does not correlate with maximizing traction and cornering angle. If you have decent talent behind the wheel, DSC is only good in in-climate weather. No more.
Its absolutely horrible when going on a spirited drive or tracking of any variety.
Since it started raining DSC has almost gotten me into two accidents because it used the brakes to 'stop' wheel spin. Honestly its horrible unless you are ham fisted and lead footed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottinBend
and the debate continues........................DSC will only intrude if you are "out of control"/over-understeering. And the traction control should not be a factor if you have the lsd as the limit of traction is greatly increased.
Lives of people who dont know what a supercharger is or what it does....ABS is the only electronic device that I have found to really help me. This isnt the new M3 with 7+ levels of DSC intervention. The MINI DSC is designed for people who have no idea how to drive. Or people with solid rear axles...lol ;)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Obnxs
There's just too much data to show that the systems saves lives, lots of lives.
Matt
Last edited by R53Warrior; 11-14-2009 at 11:13 PM.
Ive got a Quaife in my car and I leave DSC off all of the time unless its raining or snowing. I just dont like DSC deciding when it should come on by itself
__________________
'02 MCS LY/W, premium, sport, Alta shifter & intake, Cobb STi shift knob, Helix 15% pulley, Stage 1 brake upgrade with EBC reds, wheel studs, and rear control arms,BC coilovers,Invidia exaust, Whiteline Rear sway bar, Clutch Masters FX300 and flywheel, Quaife ATB LSD, Powerflex engine/trans bushings,H&R 5mm spacers, RMW cam, street header, Jesus head, Aquamist, and 440cc injectors, RMW tune
__________________ 2004 Liquid Yellow MCS Sport/Chrome Pkg, 17% Alta SC Pulley, Alta Intake, Alta IC Diverter, Ultrik Cam, CM Flywheel/FX200, OBX ATB Diff, JCW Fuel Injectors and Software, Edge Racing Sport Header with Magnaflow Cat, 1 Ball Exhaust, JCW Plugs, Powerflex Front Subframe Bushings, Powerflex Motor Mount Inserts, Alta Springs, Alta Lower Control Arms, Alta 19mm Rear Sway Bar, Rear Seat Deleted, 17 by 7 O.Z. Ultraleggeras, Auto Meter Boost/Vacuum And Oil Pressure Gauges.
I've got factory LSD and Traction Control. The Traction Control is enough to get you killed when you need to accelerate (like entering traffic while turning), even after having it desensitized with an ECU tune.
Mine is automatically turned Off except when conditions are wet or icy, when I turn it On, courtesy of Ian's MINI Circuit, which (optionally) shuts Off Traction control or DSC when you start the car.
__________________
"You can fool some of the people all of the time, and all of the people some of the time, but you can not fool all of the people all of the time." - Abraham Lincoln
2004 Liquid Yellow MCS Sport/Chrome Pkg, 17% Alta SC Pulley, Alta Intake, Alta IC Diverter, Ultrik Cam, CM Flywheel/FX200, OBX ATB Diff, JCW Fuel Injectors and Software, Edge Racing Sport Header with Magnaflow Cat, 1 Ball Exhaust, JCW Plugs, Powerflex Front Subframe Bushings, Powerflex Motor Mount Inserts, Alta Springs, Alta Lower Control Arms, Alta 19mm Rear Sway Bar, Rear Seat Deleted, 17 by 7 O.Z. Ultraleggeras, Auto Meter Boost/Vacuum And Oil Pressure Gauges.
