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If someone is looking for R56 turbo upgrades, I would really sit back and wait. There are other vendors working on it and I know of one that has a direct bolt on replacement that is hot ! Looks OEM, fits inside the existing heat shield and so on ..... Turbo's are not something you want to rush into, do it wrong and it can have a very serious problem that no warranty is going to cover and the repairs will be very expensive.
This has been discussed before, I feel the need to repeat it....
If you mod beyond an exhaust, CAI, or IC, you really can not expect either:
1. Warranty coverage from MINI... seriously, why should they be liable.
2. Not to encounter other things breaking, and yes, building engines is expensive, good strong quality parts are not cheap.
3. Toys are meant to be played with, real playing is real money.
4. This engine is new, the process to build and tune it is new, it will take awhile to get it sorted out. I had one of the original Callaway turbo kits on my GTi back in the 80's, I went through a few engines while we were tuning that.
5. I suspect Alta is spending a HUGE amount of effort sorting this out due to the issues with the ECU, I doubt they want to release something that isn't working right.
This means... either wait for the pros to do it for you, or
Now in the proper thread lol.....So what kinda peak boost can we run with those upgraded turbos like the Gt2560R, Gt2854R, etc?? Or just running the new tune vs. unichip??
__________________
ALTA: Turbo Back Exhaust, Intake, Intercooler, Boost Gauge, 22mm Rear Sway Bar, BOV...AccessPort?!
AEM: Water/Meth. Injection
Lots of Carbon Fiber...
Now in the proper thread lol.....So what kinda peak boost can we run with those upgraded turbos like the Gt2560R, Gt2854R, etc?? Or just running the new tune vs. unichip??
Jeff is in working on a project and will pop in ASAP! Thanks for the post!
Alta/Whoever it may interest,
I have just spent the last half hour on the phone to a company who specialise in custom remapping of all turbo cars. I was enquiring about getting a remap done and the limitations of the car etc etc. When I just out of curiousity said to him, have you had any work with a new shape R56 Cooper S before, and he replied by saying yes and they had just finished doing a complete large turbo conversion done on a race spec one. As I have been following this thread since day 1, I was intrigued and asked him to carry on... Anyway this is pretty much the sum of our 27minute conversation :
He fitted a Garrett GT80 turbo onto it, and completely re-wrote the software for it himself. They did several dyno runs after completion of the ECU tuning software side of things and pulled an impressive 350bhp average (bhp not whp) but then suddenly had a problem with an injector... and further investigation revealed that the stock injectors were being maxed out at about 265bhp (again BHP not WHP). So they immediately stopped all work and replaced the injectors with 460cc ones off a Porsche and began testing again. They were immediately able to up the power to 375bhp without any problems at all, and the injectors were running at about 80% of their capacity. He didnt know WHP figures but said the car was very very quick!
He told me to bear in mind that it was a race car and thus the map he had written was a very aggresive one and would make for a terrible road car..
Now the interesting bit....
He said the car was pretty much brand new (non JCW) and had a 100% stock engine on it other than the turbo. The air filter, downpipe, intercooler etc were all standard at the time of testing, although they had been modified to fit the new turbo.
So this made me think, Alta what have you experienced with the stock injectors? This guy seemed to think they were being maxed out at 265bhp, so there are some people already running that sort of power on these boards...
Cheers
Now in the proper thread lol.....So what kinda peak boost can we run with those upgraded turbos like the Gt2560R, Gt2854R, etc?? Or just running the new tune vs. unichip??
18psi is where we left it. Basically we built the kit, ran it for a while, tuned it to 270, at 18psi and said lets drive on it more before we crank it up. Then the engine managment issue came up
Quote:
Originally Posted by futureal33
He fitted a Garrett GT80 turbo onto it, and completely re-wrote the software for it himself. They did several dyno runs after completion of the ECU tuning software side of things and pulled an impressive 350bhp average (bhp not whp) but then suddenly had a problem with an injector... and further investigation revealed that the stock injectors were being maxed out at about 265bhp (again BHP not WHP). So they immediately stopped all work and replaced the injectors with 460cc ones off a Porsche and began testing again. They were immediately able to up the power to 375bhp without any problems at all, and the injectors were running at about 80% of their capacity. He didnt know WHP figures but said the car was very very quick!
He told me to bear in mind that it was a race car and thus the map he had written was a very aggresive one and would make for a terrible road car..
Now the interesting bit....
He said the car was pretty much brand new (non JCW) and had a 100% stock engine on it other than the turbo. The air filter, downpipe, intercooler etc were all standard at the time of testing, although they had been modified to fit the new turbo.
So this made me think, Alta what have you experienced with the stock injectors? This guy seemed to think they were being maxed out at 265bhp, so there are some people already running that sort of power on these boards...
Cheers
Sounds very interesting! There are ways to flash the ECU right now, but all require pulling the ECU from the car, then pulling it apart, and using a special tool reflashing it. We have done this and while it works, its not something we can ship to customers nor ask them to be down from their car for a week. Not to mention its no the most solid way to flash the ECU, there is a lot of potential for errors.
Regarding running out of injectors. We haven't seen this yet. While there is no real way to read accurate injector Duty Cycle we never saw the tell tale sign where the AFRs are nice and consistent then go leaner as the RPM's increase. We never saw this, but i do expect to see it at some point.
Most all the DI motors out there run into the same problem. Some guys try to fix it by changing out the pumps but this only gets you 10-20% more flow. Inejectors are the best way to fix it, but the choices are pretty limited (sounds like there might be one choice with the Porsche??). But in order to run them properly you need a proper relfash. Which is sounds like this guy has done.
__________________
Jeff Perrin
R&D
ALTA Performance™
503.693.1702 Ex. 105
AIM altaperrin WWW.ALTAMINIPERFORMANCE.COM
Yes he said he had completely re-written the software for the ECU map, and then when he changed the injectors he had to trawl through the whole ECU to find the injector map and then manually adjust that to work with the new Porsche injectors.. He went into detail beyond my understanding but was saying something about "continuous duty cycle" being the hardest bit to map...
Interesting jeff, sounds like now 20+psi is possible...........and what are the differences in performance between the garrett Gt2560R and Gt2854R just in general. I was lookin at the A/Rs, compressor/turbine wheel sizes, and it seemed like the Gt25 would make more power, but I thought the Gt28 was bigger, hmmm...
__________________
ALTA: Turbo Back Exhaust, Intake, Intercooler, Boost Gauge, 22mm Rear Sway Bar, BOV...AccessPort?!
AEM: Water/Meth. Injection
Lots of Carbon Fiber...
lots of people do mail in ecu flashes tho right? for a good amount of RELIABLE power, Id mail mine in =]
yup! In the VW/Audi world, before the day where OBD-II port flashes were common place, sending in your ECU was very typical.
__________________ 2006 MINI Cooper S JCW GP--GP#1599 -Stock...I think?? 2008 MINI Cooper S R56--Astro Black/White--Gone -JCW Turbo | Aquamist HFS-3 Meth injection | RMW AP Tune | Helix FMIC | DDM CAI | Riss Racing Catless DP+Invidia Exhaust
Interesting jeff, sounds like now 20+psi is possible...........and what are the differences in performance between the garrett Gt2560R and Gt2854R just in general. I was lookin at the A/Rs, compressor/turbine wheel sizes, and it seemed like the Gt25 would make more power, but I thought the Gt28 was bigger, hmmm...
The GT2560 and the GT2854 have different size turbine wheels. The 25 has a smaller wheel, and the 28 is a bigger wheel. But the GT2560 has a bigger a compressor wheel, compared to the Gt2854. So it flows more air.
The GT2854R is a freer flowing turbo compared to the other because of the bigger exhaust wheel, but this also means it will spool a little slower. But it might make up for being a smaller compressor by being freer flowing. When you are comparing turbos that are very minorly different, things become of a trade off. When you go with a bigger exhaust wheel and smaller compressor wheel it might balance out to do the same thing as the smaller exhaust wheel and bigger compressor. It can be confusing that is for sure.
But either way we feel the GT2560R is a better match as the exhaust path is very short from port to turbo and it makes for a more responsive setup. This is really important especially with going from the most responsive turbo known to man (not really) to anything bigger.
__________________
Jeff Perrin
R&D
ALTA Performance™
503.693.1702 Ex. 105
AIM altaperrin WWW.ALTAMINIPERFORMANCE.COM
The GT2560 and the GT2854 have different size turbine wheels. The 25 has a smaller wheel, and the 28 is a bigger wheel. But the GT2560 has a bigger a compressor wheel, compared to the Gt2854. So it flows more air.
The GT2854R is a freer flowing turbo compared to the other because of the bigger exhaust wheel, but this also means it will spool a little slower. But it might make up for being a smaller compressor by being freer flowing. When you are comparing turbos that are very minorly different, things become of a trade off. When you go with a bigger exhaust wheel and smaller compressor wheel it might balance out to do the same thing as the smaller exhaust wheel and bigger compressor. It can be confusing that is for sure.
But either way we feel the GT2560R is a better match as the exhaust path is very short from port to turbo and it makes for a more responsive setup. This is really important especially with going from the most responsive turbo known to man (not really) to anything bigger.
Hahah, "most responsive turbo known to man", seriously it's like a light switch with the tune...So then what's really the point of the Gt2854R, cuz doesn't the Gt25 make more hp also? What about the Gt2860R, cuz that was the other main one I was looking at?...thanks for the good info jeff
__________________
ALTA: Turbo Back Exhaust, Intake, Intercooler, Boost Gauge, 22mm Rear Sway Bar, BOV...AccessPort?!
AEM: Water/Meth. Injection
Lots of Carbon Fiber...
Every turbo has an application. My guess, given the turbos that are close to each other, the Gt2854 might be used on a bigger displacment engine where it would need to be freer flowing. Just a guess though.
__________________
Jeff Perrin
R&D
ALTA Performance™
503.693.1702 Ex. 105
AIM altaperrin WWW.ALTAMINIPERFORMANCE.COM
Any news for the turbo kit??
If someone has already unichip can you sell him now at this moment the turbo kit without the unichip??
What are you waiting for Alta people??
Without proper fueling it is waste of time and money on a turbo kit. There has to be a lot of things into consideration when building a BT kit, and I am pretty sure ALTA is about to get it right.
that GT80 kit with 375whp and stock internals/no other mods is a hilarious story.
What's the next biggest turbocharger after the one the MCS has on it?
I assume you're referring to the stock one...which is a KO3.
KO4 is the next size up.
__________________ 2006 MINI Cooper S JCW GP--GP#1599 -Stock...I think?? 2008 MINI Cooper S R56--Astro Black/White--Gone -JCW Turbo | Aquamist HFS-3 Meth injection | RMW AP Tune | Helix FMIC | DDM CAI | Riss Racing Catless DP+Invidia Exhaust
Laser Blue/White MCS delivered 3/8/07. Off lease 5/17/09.
o7 Astro Black/White MCS
