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Im going with nuts and blots so I can remove said diverter. will post some parts #'s when I have them.
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"There are only three sports, Bullfighting, Motor Racing, and Mountaineering; All the rest are merely games." - Ernest Hemingway
RMW Tuned: 224 WHP / 200 FT LBS of Screaming BRG!
Maybe I missed it, but what were the original IAT's. I'm curious to see what the deltas were from the baseline temps. Cheers!
Beau
As I have posted many times, the variance of measured IATs is so great that nearly any statistically significant difference is extremely difficult to identify. That said, I'd say that this mod has lowered the approach by 20-30% when cruising at highway speeds. Unfortunately that's probably the best case. It may not even lower the approach under hot, stop-start traffic jam conditions, but I haven't observed them yet. The recovery time under these conditions may be faster as PARTSMAN suggests.
Whatever one uses to go over the hose, might want to fasten it with something that can be easily removed for quicker access to the bleeder and for future hose replacement...
Look forward to more advances in the coming days!
Quote:
Originally Posted by El_Griton
Im going with nuts and blots so I can remove said diverter. will post some parts #'s when I have them.
A small hole in the diverter to fit over the bleeder screw would work well, that way you can keep from having to remove it when bleeding the system.
Man o man, this thread is getting good. Lots of power tools, cutting & triming, lowering the WHOLE under hood temp, what could be better?
I think a box for the radiator, TonyB style, may be in order ( We need to see how Dr Phil does in the heat if the shroud is removed ala Sid ). And if you have an M7 piece to split the air on the bumper 1/2 the job is done. Partsman has the right idea for the bleeder ( hole through the tray w/ maybe a wire tie or a clamp to secure the hose ). If the radiator shroud was a 2 piece unit It would be a little easier to fab up something that work better ( a good job for the M7 people, in CF ).
It's been a long time since a good thread like this 1........
__________________ 2003 S, IB/ W, no HK sound, leather or power seats but everything else.
it's great to see the old guard having fun, and who would have thought on such a low budget. :P
Sorry to chime in with a seemingly stupid question. But why shave the whole shroud? Why not cut it just where the Intake manifold is to funnel the air more efficiently?
Man o man, this thread is getting good. Lots of power tools, cutting & triming, lowering the WHOLE under hood temp, what could be better?
I think a box for the radiator, TonyB style, may be in order ( We need to see how Dr Phil does in the heat if the shroud is removed ala Sid ). And if you have an M7 piece to split the air on the bumper 1/2 the job is done. Partsman has the right idea for the bleeder ( hole through the tray w/ maybe a wire tie or a clamp to secure the hose ). If the radiator shroud was a 2 piece unit It would be a little easier to fab up something that work better ( a good job for the M7 people, in CF ).
It's been a long time since a good thread like this 1........
Steve, the only thing about a box for the radiator is that the top of said box would have to be very short, then raises the question of how effective it would be. If you look in there through the grille(or look at DrPhil's cool see through) there is not a lot of room for a lip on the top of the radiator.
it's great to see the old guard having fun, and who would have thought on such a low budget. :P
Sorry to chime in with a seemingly stupid question. But why shave the whole shroud? Why not cut it just where the Intake manifold is to funnel the air more efficiently?
This is what I chose to do (see photo.) I still use the ram air duct to the airbox at the right. I removed it, but couldn't do anything interesting with the remaining hole. And more fresh air to the airbox can't be bad...even if I have enough already!
So far I can't detect any impact on water temperatures, and I'm sure that although I can't show it statistically, the approach appears to be lower under a variety of commuting conditions.
I think some ideas on what to put in place of the removed shroud are in order. Sid's needs are somewhat unusual because of the AGS3, but generally I envision something that directs air to the manifold like mine, and air to the IC-out horn for extra cooling there.
I'm interested also to see if someone with a down-draft IC will do this, and take/report some temperatures. Unfortunately I don't think there's too many people with instruments and a stock/DD IC.
it's great to see the old guard having fun, and who would have thought on such a low budget. :P
Sorry to chime in with a seemingly stupid question. But why shave the whole shroud? Why not cut it just where the Intake manifold is to funnel the air more efficiently?
Not a stupid question at all, as a matter of fact, I think DrPhil only took out the section in front of the manifold.
I removed the whole thing because I think it looks better.
A small hole in the diverter to fit over the bleeder screw would work well, that way you can keep from having to remove it when bleeding the system.
I was actually thinking of doing this! Really...but I was so wanting to just get the diverter done and on that I bypassed it. There's one downside to it: the hole may cause the hose to contact the diverter thereby heating it up. In my setup the bleeder (nylon) actually rests against the underside of the Al diverter--causing the hose to stand-off from the diverter and so the diverter is cool to the touch after my commute, so I'm pretty sure there's no transfer of heat to the diverter.
I went back and took a look at phil's. I didn't see the remaining parts of the shrowd until now. Cool stuff.
I've been thinking of toying with some of this stuff with my stock IC and hoodscoop. Mind if i shoot some pm's back and forth with you doc to see if getting measuring equipment could be a reality for me?
Any of you two (PARTSMAN or Dr. Phil) have an oil temp gauge? I like to notice the recovery times of oil temp when motionless (traffic), to normal highway speeds. While coolant temps might not change much, or noticeably, the effect on oil temps (with our MINI), from my experiences is not always identical or linear...
I didn't have time to take a better photo, but the box around the perimeter of the radiator, as Steve brought-up again, can extend forward the radiator well over an inch without any interference to bonnet operation; at least the best I could discern while playing in the parking lot yesterday. Just a little precautionary thought with some really hot days approaching...
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Weight ('03 IB MCS): 2,424 lbs (corner-balanced, 1/4 tank gas)
I had some excellent IAT recovery rates this morning...
Ambient=60 degrees
IATs @ 15psi through 3rd,4th,5th=90/95 degrees
Off boost in 6th, within 30/45 seconds IATs down to 75 degrees
they eventually settled at 8/10 degrees above ambient, and as low as 4 degrees.
Any of you two (PARTSMAN or Dr. Phil) have an oil temp gauge? I like to notice the recovery times of oil temp when motionless (traffic), to normal highway speeds. While coolant temps might not change much, or noticeably, the effect on oil temps (with our MINI), from my experiences is not always identical or linear...
Sorry Tony, no oil temp gauge, although that would be interesting to see.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TonyB
I didn't have time to take a better photo, but the box around the perimeter of the radiator, as Steve brought-up again, can extend forward the radiator well over an inch without any interference to bonnet operation; at least the best I could discern while playing in the parking lot yesterday. Just a little precautionary thought with some really hot days approaching...
Tony, were you able to look "up" through the grille to see if the lip was blocking the airflow to the manifold? As it is right now, the air enters the grille, and has to go up, then in to the manifold.
Ah, I follow you. I need to take a look, or see a photo of MINI with the bonnet closed... If this is the case, and I don't doubt you, then it's time to maybe revisit the scoop opening; as much as I know many don't want to. With the scoop removed, as I recall, there is a direct shot at the intake manifold. I need to first get some closure on the box idea... Thanks.
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Weight ('03 IB MCS): 2,424 lbs (corner-balanced, 1/4 tank gas)
Took my wife's car into work today, but looked at the MINI before I left home, and I see what you mean. A protruding lip off of the radiator can come-out quite far, but in doing so, it deprives the intake manifold of more ambient air...
That said, the top 1" or so of the grille is above the radiator, but with the stock grille, which I have, the silver trim pretty much cover this valuable space. As I said early-on, something like the M7 Ulitmate grille, with no such trim or border would better allow for airflow in this area above the radiator (that top 1" of the grille)...
Fun stuff!
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Weight ('03 IB MCS): 2,424 lbs (corner-balanced, 1/4 tank gas)
Took my wife's car into work today, but looked at the MINI before I left home, and I see what you mean. A protruding lip off of the radiator can come-out quite far, but in doing so, it deprives the intake manifold of more ambient air...
That said, the top 1" or so of the grille is above the radiator, but with the stock grille, which I have, the silver trim pretty much cover this valuable space. As I said early-on, something like the M7 Ulitmate grille, with no such trim or border would better allow for airflow in this area above the radiator (that top 1" of the grille)...
Fun stuff!
Since I have the stock early grille with the grooves in the surround, I have been thinking about dremeling a couple slots in the grooves for air to come through there. I'll check it out later.
I'm interested also to see if someone with a down-draft IC will do this, and take/report some temperatures. Unfortunately I don't think there's too many people with instruments and a stock/DD IC.
Yeah I have a stock ic. no temp probes anywhere however. I'm doing some pics today and will try to finish it tomorrow (paint needs time to dry ) I gots ideas!
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"There are only three sports, Bullfighting, Motor Racing, and Mountaineering; All the rest are merely games." - Ernest Hemingway
RMW Tuned: 224 WHP / 200 FT LBS of Screaming BRG!
So what is the final analysis on what is best practice?
__________________ my grandson Cian, the Mini and me
Mini was sold to a good home in CA. I now have a 2001 M roadster silver/black .... DDM intk, M7 TB, M7 DFIC 2, RMW head/shrick , WMS pm runners/intk mfld/cmber plates, CMP custom header/ Milltek, PSS9s, BBS/T1R, AP bbk, Alta SS, plo coil/ngy, M7 str/ustr/CC , F/R sway bar, Aero Kit, op/bst gauges, JCW 380s, Quaiffe/ Clutchmaster/FW, RMW custom tune 231.7 whp, F&R sway bars and more
We're still working on that, Bob. Expect to see a couple different takes on this mod.
I'll subscribe to the thread....this looks very interesting
__________________ my grandson Cian, the Mini and me
Mini was sold to a good home in CA. I now have a 2001 M roadster silver/black .... DDM intk, M7 TB, M7 DFIC 2, RMW head/shrick , WMS pm runners/intk mfld/cmber plates, CMP custom header/ Milltek, PSS9s, BBS/T1R, AP bbk, Alta SS, plo coil/ngy, M7 str/ustr/CC , F/R sway bar, Aero Kit, op/bst gauges, JCW 380s, Quaiffe/ Clutchmaster/FW, RMW custom tune 231.7 whp, F&R sway bars and more
Helpful photo, Tony! If you look carefully at the corners of the radiator surround (silver frame) you'll see that there is still some bonnet under the grille--this is the relatively small surround to which the grille is affixed with those silly nut-washer thingys. -- In fact the metal basis for the grille is quite clear in the photo. -- Anyway, if you then consider that the foam is 1/2" above that frame, then the bottom lip of the shroud we've all attacked (woohoo!!) I'd say that there's very little direct flow above the shroud to the IMD bummer. Still, even without direct airflow, there's got to be some "up and over" into the IMD--it's pretty close to get some spill over.
Personally my focus is moving to the sides of the radiator where I think some barriers could prevent leakage to the sides. I also noticed that my Aero grille has the sides filled in, and the open part of the grille lines up with the edges of the radiator--clearly MINI was trying to force air directly into the radiator with minimum side loss.
Wow, I see what you're saying, Tony. The M7 Ultimate Upper would be perfect to expose that area to the air flow. Even with the little bit 'o bonnet that DrPhil is referring to, the M7 grille would provide much more air to the manifold than the stock grille. You can always dremel out holes in the bonnet that match the grille holes in that area.
I have squat for time, other than to try to explain, and provide photos where I can (worth a thousand words )... I'm going to have to be a spectator, at least for a few more days...
Venting on top helps also with an exit or flow path, from my readings (need to qualify my statements). As I said, I think in another thread, the cowl grilles, with bonnet liner removed (and more so with the rubber stripping also), act as an escape for hot air, paricularly when motionless.
__________________
Weight ('03 IB MCS): 2,424 lbs (corner-balanced, 1/4 tank gas)
2003 S, IB/ W, no HK sound, leather or power seats but everything else.
) I gots ideas!
my grandson Cian, the Mini and me
bummer. Still, even without direct airflow, there's got to be some "up and over" into the IMD--it's pretty close to get some spill over. 
