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An Aerogel sleeve to go around the coolant hose would be nice, and if not all the way around, draped over it for a sufficient length should work well. Nice work with the hose rotation!
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That's basically what I did, Partially wrapped the hose in thermotec barrier ("C" shaped barrier between the intake and the hose and zip tied the hose in place so there was some space betweent he hose and the intake for air flow. Also did not the self adhesive type Like alot of us have used in the intake box but The kind with the highly reflective barrier).
If you happened to take any photos, please share. I think wrapping it might be the way to go...
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Weight ('03 IB MCS): 2,424 lbs (corner-balanced, 1/4 tank gas)
That's basically what I did, Partially wrapped the hose in thermotec barrier ("C" shaped barrier between the intake and the hose and zip tied the hose in place so there was some space betweent he hose and the intake for air flow. Also did not the self adhesive type Like alot of us have used in the intake box but The kind with the highly reflective barrier).
Quote:
Originally Posted by TonyB
If you happened to take any photos, please share. I think wrapping it might be the way to go...
I would like to see it as well. Wrapping the hose sounds like a good idea, but to get the full effect, the manifold needs to be exposed to the air coming in from the grille.
OK, here's my version of PARTSMAN's "intake manifold diverter (IMD)"
It needs to be cleaned up a little, but it holds the radiator hose down and away from the manifold and directs air to the manifold. With this diverter, I doubt you need to insulate the radiator hose.
Here are my numbers from the drive this morning:
ambient: 75F
airbox: 74F (!)
IAT: 80F -- an approach of 5F-- this is excellent
Now, for Dr Obnxs, of course this was cruising at 73mph in 6th gear with 9psi MAP (barometric is 12 at my altitude).
But check this out: SC out temp was 210F. Now who's willing to tell me the intercooler doesn't work? Huh?
Awesome work Phil. I was contemplating a plate like this, but as I said earlier, extending it forward the radiator a little to also act as a radiator diverter below the surface... Pretty excited about taking a Dremel to this baby next weekend!
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Weight ('03 IB MCS): 2,424 lbs (corner-balanced, 1/4 tank gas)
Awesome work Phil. I was contemplating a plate like this, but as I said earlier, extending it forward the radiator a little to also act as a radiator diverter below the surface... Pretty excited about taking a Dremel to this baby next weekend!
Ah..while fabbing up the diverter this morning, I was thinking of you, Tony, and your comment about separating airflows! I don't think you can extend the diverter much forward of what I have in the picture...since the bonnet curves back from the bumper and if you note the shape of the radiator shroud it is curved, to match up with the top of the grille. I am thinking of putting some rubber gasket on the front edge of my diverter to create a proper seal and it's all ready set for that, but I'm pretty sure you can't extend it forward without interferring with the grille as you close the bonnet.
cheers,
extending it forward the radiator a little to also act as a radiator diverter below the surface...
I was just looking at this on lunch, once you get in there Tony and see how much room there is, even a small diverter will pretty much block the airflow to the manifold.
I'm actually thinking of cutting my hood up some more in between the scoop and grille surround, if I can find (or make) some smooth air intakes to insert.
Also, Joaquin, I noticed that up above the grille inside the bonnet are those two openings that give access to 2 of the 4 bolts holding the scoop on. I remember a couple of years ago (and maybe TonyB was part of this) there was a whole discussion concerning running these holes open or keeping the OEM plastic covers there. Well now that we're trying to get air up there to the IMD, I put the covers back in, just to keep all the air going up to the underside of the scoop (remember, my scoop has a far deeper lower lip than the stock scoop, so it acts as a nice "top" to the IMD to form what is essentially a channel right to the manifold.
Also, Joaquin, I noticed that up above the grille inside the bonnet are those two openings that give access to 2 of the 4 bolts holding the scoop on. I remember a couple of years ago (and maybe TonyB was part of this) there was a whole discussion concerning running these holes open or keeping the OEM plastic covers there. Well now that we're trying to get air up there to the IMD, I put the covers back in, just to keep all the air going up to the underside of the scoop (remember, my scoop has a far deeper lower lip than the stock scoop, so it acts as a nice "top" to the IMD to form what is essentially a channel right to the manifold.
I remember a discussion about that, I have mine taped off. Although, I don't think it makes a difference if the hood insulation has been removed. The only part of the insulation I have left is right over the two rear compartments.
tempting to get some thin base copper cpu heatsinks and attach them to the intake manifold no?
Actually, Sid, after this weekend at the track, I think the brake ducts are a better idea! Boy, I had to slow down after about 3 laps because my brakes were gettin' stinky. I was only running BP10s, but still, there was more brake dust on my wheels than bugs in my grille!
Still, having looked at your duct mod (extreme--sweet!!), I think the IMD is a lot easier!
btw, to minimusprime, just like insulation, there's 2 sides to the heatsink issue: it increases the surface area to speed up cooling, but it also increases the thermal mass for more heat soak... I think Dr O. once said that for the parts after the IC, less mass is better.
Well if it's that easy, I'm diving into it as soon as I get off work... Funny how the three of us think alike...after enlarging the hole for the AGS, the thin rib cracked and has been held together by the rubber seal...I've been on and off about just hacking the whole thing off like Joaquin but didn't know it would have such benifit...the radiator hose idea is Genius Was that just a matter of turning the hose only?
__________________ Famous last words..."I'm just going to change the wheels and tires...I promise"
Ok, the last couple of weekends I've been dorking-around with a chainsaw, ladder, weed-eater, etc... It's pretty obvious that I need to open the bonnet this weekend. I drove my MINI today so I'll go down during my lunch break to take a gander...
I want to see what you mean by the grille, and if it is the grille (as opposed to the bonnet), I wonder if it can be modified a bit, or how a different grille would work instead. I however seem to think that a separate diverter (aluminum plate) on top of the radiator itself should work well. It doesn't have to seal against anything, just come forward a little to help trap the oncoming air in front, and push it through... The sides are raised a bit already, which sort of explains the idea...
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Weight ('03 IB MCS): 2,424 lbs (corner-balanced, 1/4 tank gas)
...Was that just a matter of turning the hose only?
Surprisingly simple, Sid! I did it with mechanics gloves while the engine was warm (not hot!). Release the 3 visible clamps once you cut away the shroud. I just left them on the hose body away from the normal clamping zones. The two on either side of the breather should be "stuck" but a twist with some grips and they're loose. No worries about fluid leaking as you don't ever take the hoses off, just rotate them. The left hose rotates forward and down, the right hose back and down. I set the breather where I could get access to it, and then put the clamps back so I could get to them easily.
It took longer to type this than do it...
Boy am I behind in this Arms race Although I've been busy ducting my brakes...
Great job Joaquin...don't mind if I copy you...
Thanks Sid, do I mind? Absolutely not!
I was actually waiting for your input, as you always have a different take on the same idea. Be sure to post pics.
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Originally Posted by MSFITOY
Well if it's that easy, I'm diving into it as soon as I get off work... Funny how the three of us think alike...after enlarging the hole for the AGS, the thin rib cracked and has been held together by the rubber seal...I've been on and off about just hacking the whole thing off like Joaquin but didn't know it would have such benifit...the radiator hose idea is Genius Was that just a matter of turning the hose only?
Yes, just rotate the hose.
Back off the three clamps and break it loose at the radiator and at the bleeder, and twist it until it goes down. Reposition the clamps.
Has anyone taken a look at the foam that's on top of the radiator?
I wonder if a section of that could be removed to allow the air to flow to the passenger side of the manifold where the SC exit wraps around it.
After getting home and popping the hood, that is definitely the hottest part of the manifold.
If this could be done, then some sort of TonyB type lip would need to be fabbed in that area.
Has anyone taken a look at the foam that's on top of the radiator?
I wonder if a section of that could be removed to allow the air to flow to the passenger side of the manifold where the SC exit wraps around it.
After getting home and popping the hood, that is definitely the hottest part of the manifold.
If this could be done, then some sort of TonyB type lip would need to be fabbed in that area.
Heck...as long as we're removing a significant part of the radiator shroud, we might as well remove the foam...
__________________ Famous last words..."I'm just going to change the wheels and tires...I promise"
OK, to help you all out...here's another of my "see through" photos, made a couple of minutes ago in the parking garage (so don't focus on the background...)
I've tried to point out the things that might affect airflow.
First notice that the radiator is right behind the grille (this is good!) I doubt the air wants to go anywhere else... Second notice that it has to really go up and over to get to the IMD. 3rd, notice that the IC scoop and diverter form a natural "top" to the IMD. Last, I can't see much room for Tony's forward lip extension before it blocks any air getting to the IMD. The foam Joaquin refers to is about 1/2" tall under the IMD.
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dr. phil
Last edited by DrPhilGandini; 05-14-2007 at 01:49 PM.
It's killing me not being able to see my MINI now...
I believe there is potential there. Whenever we contemplate removing something or modifying it, we should try to understand what purpose(s) it might serve first. I'm guessing that the foam-like strip a top the radiator is there, like the shroud above that seals to the bonnet, to make for pressure forward the radiator. Removing it should help get more air back there... Again, at the expense of possibly less air going through the radiator. I feel that with aluminum strip or plate on the top of the radiator (where the foam was), will help keep the direct air going straight through the radiator.
Going down now to look at it...
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Weight ('03 IB MCS): 2,424 lbs (corner-balanced, 1/4 tank gas)
Phil, those pics are the best! Thanks very much for posting it.
Like I said earlier, I was just looking at the lip idea at lunch, it would have to be very small in that area, but then you have to question how functional it would be.
That's why I raised the question about the foam.
Phil, given the space limitations that you have clearly shown (very cool btw!), extending the IMD into a dual purpose diverter seems problematic, or at least not so easy...
A plate or strip adhered to the top of the radiator, and even the sides would help ensure that the radiator gets it share of air. Ideally, I've wanted to "box" the whole radiator in this fashion, but as I said earlier, I want the A/C (condensor) gone for this procedure...
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Weight ('03 IB MCS): 2,424 lbs (corner-balanced, 1/4 tank gas)
I believe there is potential there. Whenever we contemplate removing something or modifying it, we should try to understand what purpose(s) it might serve first. I'm guessing that the foam-like strip a top the radiator is there, like the shroud above that seals to the bonnet, to make for pressure forward the radiator. Removing it should help get more air back there... Again, at the expense of possibly less air going through the radiator. I feel that with aluminum strip or plate on the top of the radiator (where the foam was), will help keep the direct air going straight through the radiator.
Going down now to look at it...
Tony, I misunderstood your idea. I didn't know you where thinking of a diverter plate IN PLACE of the foam. That, I think will work. There may need to be some modification to the back of the shroud to let the air flow through.
I agree with Tony that the shroud must be there for a reason, and positive pressure forcing the air coming in the grille through the upper radiator is probably it. What we have done is open up that area, giving air another (*maybe* less restrictive) path to follow. However, the test is in water temperatures, and oil and engine temperatures, not in speculation, surely. As I reported from my track day, I did not see a water temperature above 207F and ambient was 80F or so. The fans never went on even when I came in after a 15 minute session (standard at the track day.) I will be monitoring it all on my daily commute, which is not long, but always hot and slow... So long as the thermostat opens and temps stay under 220F, aren't we OK?
On a related matter, as I've shown with my FAD, even though I have "stolen" some air from the IC, the overall efficiency has not been compromised and my intake efficiency is very high, proven by approaches nowdays often in the single digits (woohoo!) and mostly under 20F.
It could be that there's more than enough air coming in the grille to flow through the radiator and up and over to the IMD...
Although I've been busy ducting my brakes...
Funny how the three of us think alike...after enlarging the hole for the AGS, the thin rib cracked and has been held together by the rubber seal...I've been on and off about just hacking the whole thing off like Joaquin but didn't know it would have such benifit...the radiator hose idea is Genius 
I drove my MINI today so I'll go down during my lunch break to take a gander...
