I should have listened...

[davavd]

...to all of you about letting the dealership wash my car . My car was fairly dirty yesterday when I went in for my first service , (excuses:weather, work, home renovations, etc.). When I got it back it looked great - all nice and clean . This morning, I went out in the garage, turned on the light, stopped to admire my car and saw the dreaded swirl marks all over my 1-month old, never-been-washed paint job . They are not visible under natural (overcast) light, but inside, under artificial light, they are everywhere. I thought you were all being anal, but this is (speechless).

What do I do? I would prefer not to have to buy a polisher, but I would consider renting one if it isn't possible to fix it by hand. Help

[WannaMini_]

Oh, I am so sorry that d'Mini's all swirly. :-( :-( I think a good polishing with a PC will be the only thing to get the swirls out. :-(

But does the paint have to "cure" more before polisher can be used? OG? Ken?

[CR&PW&JB]

BUMMER !!!

Taking both ours in for first service TOMORROW. Here's the note I prepared and am going to place on the rearview mirrors:

DO NOT WASH... UNLESS YOU USE:

-Lambswool wash mitt
-Two Bucket Wash System
-Waffle Weave drying towel from Griot's
-Monster Fluffy buffing towel from Detailer's Paradise
-Speed Shine from Griot's
-303 Aerospace Protectant for the black trim
-Microfiber towels on the wheels

Think that'll stop them from washing them ?

[camminich]

Ugh, sorry to hear that you have suffered the same fate as so many others.

But fear not, it can be fixed, unless of course they use a SOS pad. It sounds like your paint is probably at least 60 days old, so you really do not need to anything too special. Just wash her again, properly, use a good car soap, and there are many to choose from, I like Griots, and use a nice chamois or good soft cloth to dry the MINI off, then look again for your swirls. You might be lucky, and what you are seeing is just dirt or drying marks.

If not, no worries, just move to a nice clay bar or paint cleaner to lightly buff the swirls out. When you are done though, you should really wax the MINI. Any pre-wax coating that came from the factory will come off if you use clay or paint cleaner.

Lots of products to choose from, lots of great recommendations here on NAM. I like Griots, or if you are looking for something you can p/u at the store, Meguair's is not too bad either.

If you are lucky, then a wash should only take you 30 mins to an hour. If you have to clay and wax, figure another 3.

Just remember, the reason those marks are there is due to unclean wash soap, bad washing mits (or none at all), and a half-assed job. So get yourself a good wash mit, detail clothes, and car cleaner products.

Good luck

[PredMini]

Make nice with OctaneGuy. He is the all knowing car cleaning guru.

Swirls can be removed by hand....but why would you want to? It will probably take multiple passes with products like Scratch X, then M80 Polish, then a good wax. With a polisher it's just going to be the M80 and the wax. Much less time spent, no worn out arms and hands, plus there is no way you can do the process by hand and match a polisher applied job.

If you are already this anal then you should just pony up and get youself set up with a polisher and good chemicals. The cost would probably equal 2-3 professional detailings. That is if you could find someone other than OctaneGuy that you'd trust to hand your Mini over to.

I used to think my anal retired military father in law's rides were always in top shape till I started hanging around with this crowd. Now I realize he has a lot to learn. I've got him hooked up for his birthday Friday. He's getting OctaneGuy's vid, and the Meguiar's NXT DA Polisher bundle + a couple of other goodies.

Short term till weather clears up, Detailersparadise has some good products that will hide those swirls till you have a chance to remove them properly.

EDIT : BUY OCTANEGUY'S VIDEO! There are very good demonstrations of how to remove swirls by hand and by polisher. Watching that video alone should provide you with the reason to invest in a good polisher and chemicals. Also check out the 2 bucket wash system on his website. Once you spend the effort or $ to get the swirls out you don't want to start putting them back on at the next wash.

[MiniMaybee]

I would first take it back to the dealer and point this abuse out. See if they will either fix it to your satisfaction or pay to have it done.
If they nix either proposal then it is up to you. Clay bar will not remove swirls but will clean your paint so that you can start fresh. You need not worry about the age of your paint - it is fully cured as it comes out of the factory. If you don't want to buy a PC then try a small section using Scratch-X or any of the numerous products discussed here. Since you are doing by hand some of the products will not be a good fit since they are designed for a PC. If the section you have done shows results from your test then have at it. It will take awhile but it is doable by hand. Once swirl-free then move on to the wax stage again using any of the numerous products touted here on NAM. I currently use Prima Epic as my wax.
Next time tell them specifically not to wash your car. I usually have a clean car when I go in to the dealer so there will be less temptation.
Good luck!

Chuck

[RudyT]

I would highly suggest investing in a PCDA Polisher or similar device and a good pad system. Through your years of ownership, this device can help save you from hours of manual waxing and give you a better shine. Doing a job like this by hand, is very difficult, time consuming, and tiring. A PC will give you more time for the good stuff... Motoring!

As far as your swirls, Meguires makes a great product called M-80. OctaneGuy swears by this stuff and I have to agree. It will elminate and virtually give you a swirl free finish provided you use the correct techniques. I would also recommend his DVD.

To ensure a perfect finish, do the two bucket method wash, clay, wash again, then polish M80, then your last step should be a good wax.

Hope this helps. Good luck.

[WannaMini_]

FYI - His MINI was in a bad accident, and was repainted by a body shop.

[mcdbrendan]

Definatly go with a PC and try out M80 or Prima Swirl. All are worth their weight in gold (i have said this before, and i truly mean it).

[mcdbrendan]

ahhh there is a meguiars commercial on tv right now. weird how that works.

[davavd]

OK, if I was to buy a polisher, what should I get? On NAM, the many names used never include model #'s.

[OctaneGuy]

A quick note about seeing the swirls in the paint. Its VERY likely these were instilled by the body shop that did your work, and not the dealer after the car wash. They may have contributed to it, but in general the finish that comes from body shops are less than perfect. It may look nice and shiny but in the sun, its likely swirled out like mad. Body shops are production shops. They fix and paint cars and get them out ASAP. A guy uses a rotary buffer and some compound and quickly smooths down the paint and uses fillers to hide any swirls or holograms caused by their aggressive wool pad which last a few days until the next few car washes.

The 7424 or 7336 are essentially the same (the both come with counterweights. There are two counterweights on the market--one slightly smaller and one larger--supposedly there to match the size of sanding discs you are using with the polisher---remember it was designed for wood working not polishing paint). The counterweight is a non issue though many people will have you believe it makes a difference. Atleast when it comes to a performance/work issue--some say the counterweight makes a difference in vibration that you can feel. The 7424 includes the larger counterweight. I just purchased 5 of them from my distributor yesterday. I'm transforming them into super PC's. Ok that's not the name--but something to keep any eye on in the near future. The Meguiar's polisher is called the G-100A. Remember M stands for Mirror Glaze, so a power tool isn't a wax or polish and won't be in the Mirror Glaze line. What does G stand for? Good question--I don't recall. But yes, it's a rebadged Porter Cable with a lifetime warranty, velcro backing plate and foam pad.

Originally Posted by WannaMini_

I have the 7336 as well. Some have the 7424 I think it is, but those require a counterweight I believe.

Another option is the one on the Meguiars site. I think it's like the M-110 or something like that. That is also made by Porter Cable.

Generally you should wait 30 to 60 days before applying a wax. It varies though. It's a general rule of thumb. When your car is repainted, the body shop will buff it out and wax it soon after repainting. Might be the same week or the following week--it's not 30 days later. But to be safe, they tell the customer to wait 30 to 60 days so the paint can cure.

Originally Posted by WannaMini_

FYI - His MINI was in a bad accident, and was repainted by a body shop.

There is only one polisher to get and it's made by Porter Cable (Ok Ken will say there are two--the other from Griots). It comes in a few different configurations, but the basic machine is the same regardless of whether it comes with a pad or not. The included Porter Cable pad isn't something you will want to use anyways on your paint.

Originally Posted by davavd

OK, if I was to buy a polisher, what should I get? On NAM, the many names used never include model #'s.

Thanks for the kind plugs on my DVD everyone.

[PredMini]

Originally Posted by davavd

OK, if I was to buy a polisher, what should I get? On NAM, the many names used never include model #'s.

I went with the Meguiar's version because it carried a lifetime warranty. Like OctaneGuy said it's a Porter Cable with the Meguiar's name on it. Just carries a better warranty than the Porter Cable one does.

OctaneGuy - Got my father in law's PC Vid in yesterday. He's going to go nuts. Also have you ever used any of Meguiar's boat products. He's got a 30' center console salt water boat that he's trying to keep polished up too. I can see the 2 of us going at the boat with both of our Mequiars' DA polishers. Or taking a day to attack the rides.

[muggy]

I actually went in for my first service yesterday, and the dealership washed my car, vacuumed the inside, and wiped down the interior as well. Really nice and clean after a week of rain, no swirl marks at all.

But then, I had like 3 coats of wax with polish underneath those rain spots, but my car looks flawless! They even wiped down the door jams and trunk and everything.

One thing that may or may have not been caused by the car wash, I don't have front fogs but the little piece inside where the fogs popped out somehow on my passenger side. It's inside the bumper just movin around, I gotta figure out how to turn it back the right way and get it back in.

[OctaneGuy]

Although the DetailersParadise PC says 1 year warranty, I believe that they are now honoring a lifetime warranty as well--something people can check with Heather if they are curious about.

re: DVD
awesome!

I personally haven't used the products but my partner has. He used to own a drag boat--which incidentally enough is how he lost his leg, but it's not the reason he doesn't have a boat anymore though.

Originally Posted by PredMini

I went with the Meguiar's version because it carried a lifetime warranty. Like OctaneGuy said it's a Porter Cable with the Meguiar's name on it. Just carries a better warranty than the Porter Cable one does.

OctaneGuy - Got my father in law's PC Vid in yesterday. He's going to go nuts. Also have you ever used any of Meguiar's boat products. He's got a 30' center console salt water boat that he's trying to keep polished up too. I can see the 2 of us going at the boat with both of our Mequiars' DA polishers. Or taking a day to attack the rides.

[WannaMini_]

Originally Posted by OctaneGuy

Although the DetailersParadise PC says 1 year warranty, I believe that they are now honoring a lifetime warranty as well--something people can check with Heather if they are curious about.

Yep. That is exactly what Heather said.

[Detailers Paradise]

Originally Posted by OctaneGuy

Although the DetailersParadise PC says 1 year warranty, I believe that they are now honoring a lifetime warranty as well--something people can check with Heather if they are curious about.

Yes, we offer a lifetime warranty with our Porter Cable polishers too!

Thanks for pointing that out, OctaneGuy.

-Heather

[mcdbrendan]

Porter Cable 7336. Go to DetailersParadise.com and place an order before the 5th, and you will receive a free bottle of Mystique, there car shampoo. There site will have everything you need, and Heather will take care of you.

[WannaMini_]

I have the 7336 as well. Some have the 7424 I think it is, but those require a counterweight I believe.

Another option is the one on the Meguiars site. I think it's like the M-110 or something like that. That is also made by Porter Cable.

Welcome to the addiction. This is how it all starts....

[camminich]

Polishers, ba humbug. I still prefer doing the old way. But I guess either is just as good .

[OctaneGuy]

One more thing to add, if the swirls were indeed a result of the body shop, a PC may or may NOT fix the problem. It depends on how bad they are. In my experience, a rotary has always been needed to fix body shop work and more than half of my work is fixing other peoples mistakes.

Richard

[mcdbrendan]

is that because the paint may have cured with the scratches in it or some other reason that i cannot thinkof?

[OctaneGuy]

Haha no problem--you're doing well.

Originally Posted by WannaMini_

Thanks for all the clarification!!!! Yeah, don't think a power tool would be in a mirror glaze line. haha I should just realize that you will be along shortly to give the proper info...hahaha

Well Brendansan,

(Using a deep philosophical voice)
It goes like this. Take the hardest piece of wood you can get your hands on. Maybe some Oak that's got a nice smooth finish to it. Take some 60 grit sand paper and scuff it up. Will using 1500 grit sand paper make it smooth again?? Nope. Why not? Because to remove those deep 60 grit gouges you need to use a variety of grits in between. Maybe some 80 or 100 grit?

Using a rotary buffer with a wool pad is very aggressive. In order to remove swirl marks caused by such a tool, sometimes a rotary buffer with a foam pad and appropriate chemical is needed--sometimes a PC just doesn't cut enough, and that's why I call it a finishing tool.

Richard

Originally Posted by mcdbrendan

is that because the paint may have cured with the scratches in it or some other reason that i cannot thinkof?

[WannaMini_]

The Meguiar's polisher is called the G-100A. Remember M stands for Mirror Glaze, so a power tool isn't a wax or polish and won't be in the Mirror Glaze line

Thanks for all the clarification!!!! Yeah, don't think a power tool would be in a mirror glaze line. haha I should just realize that you will be along shortly to give the proper info...hahaha

[davavd]

Wow, you guys are awesome. The swirls are not visible at all without either direct sunlight or artificial light. They are pretty fine. I really have to get the reflection just right to see them in the sun. I guess I will ask the body shop what they think.