You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community, at no cost, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is free, fast and simple, so please join our community today!
I'm wanting to put on a coat or 2 of Epic today (first time) since the temps are in the 70s here today and threatening to drop later in the week (and rain). This may be my last big detail for the winter.
I've only had the car since the 27th of Oct. I did a first clay and wax on the 7th of Nov. I used Meguiars clay and Quik Detailer and Meguiars NXT wax.
This past Friday I did a wash at one of those do-it-your-self car bays with the high-pressure soap and rinse wands (but no brushes!)
Today I'd like to put on at least 1 coat of Prima Epic, if not 2. Just wondering, do you think I should clay again? It has rained here a fair amount since the first clay and wax (maybe 10 days or more) and I imagine that that high pressure wash is a lot like doing a Dawn wash, so I bet there's not much NXT left.
So, should I clay or should I just do a quick wash with Meguiar's car wash and sheepskin mit and then start with the Epic?
I'm worried that I won't have enough time to clay and wax, but I'm worried that if I don't clay, there will be some contaminants on the paint that will scratch during the wax process.
thanks for any advice!
__________________
Click below for pics
www.myminiac.com -- mini-themed t-shirts (unveiled at AMVIV and MOTD 5!!)
In theory, if you clayed and then waxed and it's only been a couple of months, there's no reason to clay again. Your paint should be protected by the wax.
However, if you're paranoid (like many here ) you can clay again. It won't hurt anything.
Epic is great stuff (I have 2 coats of it on Clara) - but you have to let it cure for 24 hours before you can put on the 2nd coat. But it's so easy to put on and buff off...it took me maybe half an hour to do each coat. Just don't get it on the trim, or you'll need some Wizard's to get it back off.
Oh, and usually if you're switching to a new brand of wax, you'll want to do a Dawn wash to get the old stuff off first.
Just clay the boot and maybe the front fascia if needed. Also check the area just behind the front wheels. Should only take a few minutes to do this.
That's not a bad idea. I'd wash an area on the front of the bonnet and, while it's wet, put your hand inside of a plastic grocery bag and feel the surface of the paint. If there are small bits of grit still there, do the quick front and back claying. If not, just wash the car well and use the saved time to apply another coat of sealant (Zaino, Klasse, Epic).
I only claybar my car every 6 months or so now and most of the time that isn't even necessary. In the spring when I've got pent-up auto detailing energy, I claybar and polish the car well... usually the 2nd claybar of the year isn't that necessary if I've been keeping up with regular washes and additional coats of sealant.
I'm worried that I won't have enough time to clay and wax, but I'm worried that if I don't clay, there will be some contaminants on the paint that will scratch during the wax process.
First, know that if you don't clay (today or ever) it does not mean that you will scratch your paint while waxing. (assuming your waxing a clean and washed surface, of course!) Claying does not prevent scratching during waxing. Claying does remove embedded and/or "super-stuck-on" gunk from your paint. However, leaving the gunk there just means that it will stay there. Waxing over it won't move it around or do anything else that might cause scratching.
Claying before you wax does two things (in most cases):
1) Improves the bond between the wax and the paint. Wax bonds to paint, not to the gunk and particles embedded in and on your paint; therefore, removing gunk/particles before you wax will allow for a better bond. Thus, you will achieve better durability from your wax. The degree to which the durability is improved depends on how badly the paint is coated with gunk/particles.
2) Improves the final look of the wax. Remember that wax will only enhance the look of the paint, not correct problems with and in the paint. If you don't clay first, then your paint will look shiney and all that fun stuff but it also won't look perfect. Think of claying like dusting a mirror before you look into it. If you don't dust it first, then your reflection will not be perfect. The stuff clay removes distort the reflection of light in a similar way, thereby affecting how nice your paint looks.
I agree with the others for the most part about whether or not you should clay before waxing...
You've clayed very recently but I don't know how well you clayed. Was the surface super smooth (with a baggie over your hand) after you clayed the first time?
If so, then I'd say you don't have to re-clay. It is very unlikely that you would have enough of a buildup of anything to matter in such a short period of time.
If not, then it depends. If you're not sure, do as others have already suggested and do the baggie test on various parts of the car. Some areas tend to have more problems than others so you can be more effecient by focusing on just those areas (per others' suggested areas).
All and all, if there is a time constraint and you're worried about finishing your wax... I would say just wax! Even a poor clay job the first time around is good enough when you have to choose... it's important at this time of year to get that wax on your paint and get it protected.
The day I brought my MCS home, I waxed it. I was reading that people suggested claying it even though it was new, but I had not clayed before and didn't want to take any chances. I've since learned claying is easy and safe (just use enough lubricant).
So about 5 months later I was preparing for winter and I used clay for the first time. I was happy that there wasn't much surface contaminate on the roof or bonnet as I thought there would be. I was surprised however at the amount of junk that the clay took off the back of the car. The back of the car actually caused the clay to turn color as so much contaminate was removed.
So general comment ... claying is easy and good for the car. The only down side is that it removes wax, so if you clay you should wax.
Waxing over it won't move it around or do anything else that might cause scratching.
I might disagree just a smidge with this statement... a lot of it depends on the wax that you use. If you use a wax with organic solvents and abrasives (ex: Most classic Turtle Wax products - cleaner waxes) it will remove a lot of what the claybar did (my dad's old wax applicator always turned black from the grit he was suspending in the wax... lifted by the solvents and abrasives). I'm not so sure about the scratching, but I wouldn't think that rubbing the suspended stuff across the paintwork is the best thing for it.
The original poster clayed just a few months ago, so this is a moot point anyway.
First, know that if you don't clay (today or ever) it does not mean that you will scratch your paint while waxing. (assuming your waxing a clean and washed surface, of course!) Claying does not prevent scratching during waxing. Claying does remove embedded and/or "super-stuck-on" gunk from your paint. However, leaving the gunk there just means that it will stay there. Waxing over it won't move it around or do anything else that might cause scratching.
Claying before you wax does two things (in most cases):
1) Improves the bond between the wax and the paint. Wax bonds to paint, not to the gunk and particles embedded in and on your paint; therefore, removing gunk/particles before you wax will allow for a better bond. Thus, you will achieve better durability from your wax. The degree to which the durability is improved depends on how badly the paint is coated with gunk/particles.
2) Improves the final look of the wax. Remember that wax will only enhance the look of the paint, not correct problems with and in the paint. If you don't clay first, then your paint will look shiney and all that fun stuff but it also won't look perfect. Think of claying like dusting a mirror before you look into it. If you don't dust it first, then your reflection will not be perfect. The stuff clay removes distort the reflection of light in a similar way, thereby affecting how nice your paint looks.
I agree with the others for the most part about whether or not you should clay before waxing...
You've clayed very recently but I don't know how well you clayed. Was the surface super smooth (with a baggie over your hand) after you clayed the first time?
If so, then I'd say you don't have to re-clay. It is very unlikely that you would have enough of a buildup of anything to matter in such a short period of time.
If not, then it depends. If you're not sure, do as others have already suggested and do the baggie test on various parts of the car. Some areas tend to have more problems than others so you can be more effecient by focusing on just those areas (per others' suggested areas).
All and all, if there is a time constraint and you're worried about finishing your wax... I would say just wax! Even a poor clay job the first time around is good enough when you have to choose... it's important at this time of year to get that wax on your paint and get it protected.
Hope this helps!
-Heather
Heather,
WOW, I am impressed. I could be in love with you!! I cook AND work.
ANYway, my GP is my second MINI. Before I paid people to wash it. NOW I must hand wash (thanks wing and decals :-). I have basic questions. Being that it's so new what should I do (clay, wax etc.)? Moving forward what "reasonable" items do I need to hand clean my GP inside and out covering all the 'unique' surfaces?? Talk to me......
Thanks Heather!
__________________
iflyMINI GP1292 - SOLD Summer 2011 to a great dude in Maine!! ENJOY
... my dad's old wax applicator always turned black ...
I remember that (my Dad's not your's) but I never knew why until now. Gawd that pad turned all black and yucky and we just kept going. How dumb was that . I've learned so much since joining NAM.
Now apologize to Heather for disagreeing
Finally, if you're going to take the time to detail your car don't do a sloppy job. If it takes you another hour to wash and re-clay then just do it. If I hear tell of anyone not doing the whole process (trying to save time); I think there will have to be a meeting of the OCD club to discuss punishment.
Finally, if you're going to take the time to detail your car don't do a sloppy job. If it takes you another hour to wash and re-clay then just do it. If I hear tell of anyone not doing the whole process (trying to save time); I think there will have to be a meeting of the OCD club to discuss punishment.
Like Nike says - Just do it!
I'm with you, I don't normally visit this forum but my normal process is to wash thoroughly, clay, machine polish with a final polish (if there are no problem scratches), glaze, then seal...to me anything less is just not doing it right. I do apply multiply top coats once the base surface is perfect but every 6 months to a year I do the process from start to finish. It ususally takes me 6 hours or so but I enjoy the process and the final result is exceptional.
Cheers!
__________________
--
U-Stripe, Grille Craft, DDM Intake, DDM Diverter, Hotchkis Competition, TCE Wilwood Track BP20/PolyE, Centerline Storm
MMC#451 -- Motoring ID ZOOM464
Mini birthdate July 29, 2006
Heather,
WOW, I am impressed. I could be in love with you!! I cook AND work.
The fact that the applicator turned black doesn't necessarily mean that he's pulling "grit" from the paint. In fact, most contaminants that I pull from a car is brown colored.
Was he working on black paint??? Considering this was your Dad, maybe he was working on a single stage paint (paint without a clearcoat most commonly on cars from the 1980's and earlier) and therefore he was pulling paint as well??
Anyways, I don't think Heathers comment was off. She was talking about the effect that a wax has on modern paints, ie our MINI paint. If we were on Autopia or a general car care forum, then maybe she might need correcting, but since this is a MINI forum, where nobody uses Turtle Wax compounds or old fashion Simoniz on their MINIs, her answer was just fine!
Btw, on old oxidized single stage paint, it's actually beneficial to work with a cleaner/wax first before claybarring. Something like ColorX and a terry towel will remove the heavy oxidation that would clog up a claybar, then once that's been removed you can clay the clean surface below that. In the "olden days" before claybar, all people had was aggressive rubbing compounds and sure they removed a lot of grit, but they swirled out the paint like crazy too!
Richard
Quote:
Originally Posted by agranger
I might disagree just a smidge with this statement... a lot of it depends on the wax that you use. If you use a wax with organic solvents and abrasives (ex: Most classic Turtle Wax products - cleaner waxes) it will remove a lot of what the claybar did (my dad's old wax applicator always turned black from the grit he was suspending in the wax... lifted by the solvents and abrasives). I'm not so sure about the scratching, but I wouldn't think that rubbing the suspended stuff across the paintwork is the best thing for it.
The original poster clayed just a few months ago, so this is a moot point anyway.
__________________ 5548 E. La Palma Ave., Anaheim, CA 92807 866 707 9292
Looking for Prima?? Buy Prima at ShowCarSupplies.com
11% off everyday discount code: MINI11NAM 2010 Midnight Black MCCSa
I'm with you, I don't normally visit this forum but my normal process is to wash thoroughly, clay, machine polish with a final polish (if there are no problem scratches), glaze, then seal...to me anything less is just not doing it right. I do apply multiply top coats once the base surface is perfect but every 6 months to a year I do the process from start to finish. It ususally takes me 6 hours or so but I enjoy the process and the final result is exceptional.
Cheers!
I would LOVE to have so much time! Don't get me wrong, I love detailing my GP. I just don't have the time to take another unexpected hour or two out of my day. I fly competitive aerobatics. I have to practice. Taking guitar lessons. I have to practice, people! I work so I can do all this fun stuff!
I would LOVE to have so much time! Don't get me wrong, I love detailing my GP. I just don't have the time to take another unexpected hour or two out of my day. I fly competitive aerobatics. I have to practice. Taking guitar lessons. I have to practice, people! I work so I can do all this fun stuff!
Hey everyone... don't jump all over agranger! He does have an interesting point, but like OctaneGuy pointed out it doesn't really apply to MINIs (nor most situations today). That doesn't mean it doesn't have merit! Jeesh... you guys. One should always be allowed to disagree with anyone on this forum! (except that 3 strikes and you're out with me... LOL, ha-ha-ha! Just kidding, just kidding!)
I agree with OctaneGuy also in that it can be good to use a paint cleanser or cleaner-wax before claying old oxidized single-stage paint for the reasons he stated. (Although I always prefer a dedicated paint cleanser... why also wax when you're trying to remove oxidation from nasty old single-stage paint?? That's just me though... ) But, we digress... we're talking MINIs here! You won't find such paint on today's MINI.
Last, although you may be kicked out of the OCD club or worse yet, punished by the OCD club, sometimes you have to choose your detailing battles per your time constraints. Again, at this point in the year, if you have any kind of harsh winter brewing, I would recommend at least waxing if you don't have time do to both- especially if you've clayed in the past, say, 3 months.
I'd like to hear from mini_dreams again... what did you end up doing? As the rest of us debate I wonder what you actually had time to do on your warm day!
WOW, I am impressed. I could be in love with you!! I cook AND work.
ANYway, my GP is my second MINI. Before I paid people to wash it. NOW I must hand wash (thanks wing and decals :-). I have basic questions. Being that it's so new what should I do (clay, wax etc.)? Moving forward what "reasonable" items do I need to hand clean my GP inside and out covering all the 'unique' surfaces?? Talk to me......
Thanks Heather!
LOL Very cute! Some think it's strange for a "chick" to know so much about wax and stuff... I'm glad to know I could be loved for it too! I don't know if my husband loves me specifically for it, but I do know that he loves that he doesn't have to beg his wife to "let" him buy detailing supplies like some guys have to!
Seriously though, iflymini... just send me a PM (or call) and I can help you with your specific situation. I'd love to help!
I'd like to hear from mini_dreams again... what did you end up doing? As the rest of us debate I wonder what you actually had time to do on your warm day! -Heather
I was just about to post! It was interesting to see this thread progress.
Thanks to everyone that weighed in here. Everyone has great advice/points.
I actually did NOT do a wax this past weekend... the day was perfect for it, but my time management was not. Plus, I felt more like motoring than waxing. Not many more days left when I can motor with the sunroof open.
However, this weekend, I am free of several other obligations (i think) and expect to put some time in.
Since I only clayed about 4 weeks ago, I may not do it again, but I appreciate what people have said here... either do the whole job right or at least feel sections of the car and see what's what. I did feel some sections the other day after the wash just with my finger and it is still pretty smooth. Probably not the boot, though. Also, since I only clayed 4 weeks ago, perhaps claying the entire car again won't take as long. So If I can, I will. I think I will feel better putting the Epic down, but it's good to know that if I don't clay, it won't necessarily be causing scratches during the wax process.
The bigger problem will be the temps. It will probably be colder.... 50s-60s? Can I still apply Epic in these temps or do I need to borrow a family member's garage?
Oh, last question in prep for this weekend. Today it rained and my car is still beading up like crazy. I'm assuming this means there's still a good bit of Meguiar's NXT on there from about 4 weeks ago. Should I do a Dawn wash? I know some say that a Dawn wash can be a bit harsh but isn't it important to strip off the other wax before applying a new one? Or will the clay help with that?
Thanks again everyone! The input on NAM is great and much appreciated by this detailing newbie.
__________________
Click below for pics
www.myminiac.com -- mini-themed t-shirts (unveiled at AMVIV and MOTD 5!!)
Personally I wish the idea of doing a Dawn wash would just go down the drain. Both NXT and Epic are synthetic waxes. If you really want to strip your wax, I've got some rubbing alcohol for you.
But seriously, no you don't need to do a Dawn wash. The only people that really tell you to use it are Zaino users cause that's what the instructions say.
Do I ever do a Dawn Wash? Nope.
Fwiw, I've replaced my Meguiar's 21 Synthetic Sealant, my past favorite wax with Epic. As far as application goes, relative cold is ok, wet isn't. If you apply the wax and condensation builds up immediately afterwards, that can affect how it cures, it's best to do this in a garage if possible.
Over the past week, I worked on 5 different cars and I'm using a combination of Meguiar's and Prima products. Here are two of the more interesting results.
Note that Beading is not an indicator of protection although people often confuse that with being the case. Beading is a charactistic of the wax formulation. Meguiar's prefers that it's products sheet water rather than bead. It's not to say that they don't bead, but that the length of time it beads before beginning to sheet water often gives people the impression that the protection has diminished. Zaino is a high bead polish, and it beads like crazy.
A properly applied synthetic wax will last anywhere from 2 to 4 months depending on how its being taken care of, so I'm not surprised that 4 weeks later your finish still looks great.
I've applied Epic over #21 on my black MCS (which is similar to NXT Tech Wax) without issues, so I see no reason if your paint is still in good condition why not to just apply Epic over your NXT base.
Richard
Quote:
Originally Posted by mini_dreams
Oh, last question in prep for this weekend. Today it rained and my car is still beading up like crazy. I'm assuming this means there's still a good bit of Meguiar's NXT on there from about 4 weeks ago. Should I do a Dawn wash? I know some say that a Dawn wash can be a bit harsh but isn't it important to strip off the other wax before applying a new one? Or will the clay help with that?
Thanks again everyone! The input on NAM is great and much appreciated by this detailing newbie.
__________________ 5548 E. La Palma Ave., Anaheim, CA 92807 866 707 9292
Looking for Prima?? Buy Prima at ShowCarSupplies.com
11% off everyday discount code: MINI11NAM 2010 Midnight Black MCCSa
Fwiw, I've replaced my Meguiar's 21 Synthetic Sealant, my past favorite wax with Epic.
I've applied Epic over #21 on my black MCS (which is similar to NXT Tech Wax) without issues, so I see no reason if your paint is still in good condition why not to just apply Epic over your NXT base.
Richard
YES! this is wat i was waiting for. i think this calls for another
Octane Point.
Im going to Epic my NXT next.
btw, i used Griot's window cleaner once to remove NXT. it worked quite well as
their window cleaner contains rubbing alcohol. but i typically use their
PaintPrep when changing wax.
Thanks!! Here's another shot of that Porsche and how reflective it was with Epic. Well it was polished out with Meguiar's M80 before applying Epic, but Prima Cut was used for different spots before M80.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kenchan
^^ wow, that porsche looks beautiful!
__________________ 5548 E. La Palma Ave., Anaheim, CA 92807 866 707 9292
Looking for Prima?? Buy Prima at ShowCarSupplies.com
11% off everyday discount code: MINI11NAM 2010 Midnight Black MCCSa
Well the closest I'll be to there will be at the Dragon.
Although, ShowCarGarage.com is getting ready to start scheduling Road Show classes, so ya never know, I may end up in your area doing a Paint Polishing class---maybe something you want to start arranging.
Richard
Quote:
Originally Posted by kenchan
^^ wooohhh..!!
so, when are you and skitelluride coming to chicago next Spring?
__________________ 5548 E. La Palma Ave., Anaheim, CA 92807 866 707 9292
Looking for Prima?? Buy Prima at ShowCarSupplies.com
11% off everyday discount code: MINI11NAM 2010 Midnight Black MCCSa
) you can clay again. It won't hurt anything.
jk
. I've learned so much since joining NAM.
