Advice on a scratch

[bolus]

I tried my first attempt at removing a minor scratch today. I got some improvement but I'm curious as to what you guys would recommend as a next step.

(I could not get a good 'before' picture so here's an 'after')


Prior to starting it was visible without a light overhead, but I could not feel it with a finger nail. Here's what I tried after a good wash and clay bar:

1. Meguiars scratchX applied by hand with a foam applicator. Probably did 4-5 separate applications with the technique used in the Paint Polishing DVD from the NAM store. Saw perhaps minimal improvement. I didn't expect much but wanted to start slow.
2. Second approach was with a PC using a meguiars W8006 pad and Meguiar's M80 speed glaze. Using the technique in the video I tried about 6-8 applications.

So this is where I ended up. The scratch is now less noticeable and only visible with direct light overhead. I'm happy that I managed some improvement without accidentally exposing bare metal

So what do you think? A more aggressive polish? More applications with the M80? it seemed to be working, just very minor improvements with each application.

Here is a larger shot

[BRGPA]

It's tough to know for sure exactly what to do. If it's only visible in direct light you may want to just live with it. Continuing to polish may round off the edges of the scratch further, but each time you polish you're cutting through the clearcoat more. Maybe you should consult a body shop or detailer and get their read on it. Good luck!

[bolus]

Originally Posted by BRGPA

It's tough to know for sure exactly what to do. If it's only visible in direct light you may want to just live with it. Continuing to polish may round off the edges of the scratch further, but each time you polish you're cutting through the clearcoat more. Maybe you should consult a body shop or detailer and get their read on it. Good luck!

Thanks, I pretty happy with the results I got so that is why I stopped. Im curious though how others my approach it so I can better educate myself on scratch repair.

[kenchan]

i'd probably live with it. you can try wet sanding using a sanding
block 2000grit, but those scratches look pretty deep.

[Minitee]

Like you, I'd like to hear what some more experienced detailer / paint experts will say. I'm wondering if there isn't some sort of clear-coat filler you could apply to make them much less visible (even in the direct light)?

[bolus]

Originally Posted by kenchan

i'd probably live with it. you can try wet sanding using a sanding
block 2000grit, but those scratches look pretty deep.

The picture might make it worse than it looks since I cant actually feel the scratches. Even with light pressure with the edge of a finger nail it still feels quite smooth. They sure catch the light though.

So I wonder if it would need that aggressive of a fix (which I wouldn't have the nerve to even try).

I'm pretty sure I'll live with it since I managed to get them much less noticeable.

What erks me is that either I caused them with the first wash, or that they occured before the car was delivered. I've tried to be as careful as I can and haven't caused anything close to these since then, so I think they were there before I got the car :(

[OctaneGuy]

Great work Bolus. Glad the video helped you achieve a level of success. Scratches are tricky to remove. Most of the time they can't be removed 100% but they can be minimized to the point they aren't all that visible.

From the looks of it, you've done about all you can with the tools you have.

I have a few comments though.

1.) Its really not accurate when people warn you about the dangers of removing too much clearcoat with a PC. In fact the amount of clearcoat removed is not even measurable. However the statement is true and even more valid when using more aggressive tools.

2.) Several people here on NAM often throw out wetsanding as a solution to try. I say DON'T. If you don't know what you are doing, you are going to make things worse. Sometimes sanding marks are more difficult to remove than the original scratch.

3.) As a professional detailer, I always use the least aggressive products to get the job done. In my case that would have been the rotary buffer with a w8006 pad and m80 or m83 and tried a few passes. A rotary buffer is a dangerous tool, as bad or worse than wetsanding in the hands of a newbie. If that didn't work, I would have used a cutting pad, w7006 pad with same chemicals and tried again. The most aggressive product I would have tried would have been 84.

I will post some pix of a Corvette I fixed recently with major scratches. I'm at the hospital now and will have to wait until I get home.

Richard

[bolus]

Originally Posted by OctaneGuy

I'm at the hospital now and will have to wait until I get home.

Richard

I hope you are doing okay?

I was actually suprised at how hard the clear coat was. It sometimes took a few applications with the PC + M80 to get rid of fine swirls. That sure helped boost my confidence a little. I'm pretty happy with the results so I probably wont try anything more aggressive until I get more experience with the tools.

I'd love to see those Corvette pics and how you worked out the scratches.
Thanks for the advice!

[OctaneGuy]

I'm ok thanks. My father had a heart attack tonight, so I was at the hospital when I replied. He's doing ok.

re: pc and M80
I'll often do between 3 to 5 passes of M80 with the pc to remove swirls and scratches. Once you've done 5 and you still need more cutting, then it's time to move to M83 for a few passes, then following with M80.

re: Clear coat
Yes, the MINI paint is pretty decent. There are many other paints I've worked on that are super sensitive. Infiniti paint comes to mind. It is very easy to scratch just by brushing against it. It also exhibits a strange sort of rainbow swirl pattern that other paints don't have.

A few weeks ago, I buffed out a black 2002 MC. As I worked on it, I noticed there was a lot of orange peel, and of course what I noticed immediately was how hard the paint was. Soon after the owner revealed that 2/3rds of the MINI had been repainted.

For those that don't know what it means to have hard or soft paint, consider you have swirls in your paint. From experience you know that certain tools and chemicals will remove those swirls. Every so often, you'll find that what you would normally use isn't effective, so you have to get more aggressive. Depending on your skill and toolset, once you reach your most aggressive tools and the swirls are just barely coming out, you realize you're working on something very hard. Some paints are really easy to scratch, yet are very hard to fix.

Fortunately, MINI paint is neither, when compared to other paints.

Here is a link to the pictures of a black corvette I restored recently
http://www.showcargarage.com/forums/...read.php?t=306

There were 2 significant scratches to remove




Also a small scratch on the mirror



I used clay to remove all paint transfer.

Then I wetsanded the scratches using 2500 grit unigrit


Using a rotary buffer with a cutting pad, I removed my sanding marks and polished it out, and this is how it looked afterwards





It's not perfect, nor 100% removed but it's significantly improved. By the time I finished, none of the scratches were visible.

Richard

Originally Posted by bolus

I hope you are doing okay?

I was actually suprised at how hard the clear coat was. It sometimes took a few applications with the PC + M80 to get rid of fine swirls. That sure helped boost my confidence a little. I'm pretty happy with the results so I probably wont try anything more aggressive until I get more experience with the tools.

I'd love to see those Corvette pics and how you worked out the scratches.
Thanks for the advice!

[kenchan]

octaneguy- hope your father gets well soon! that's scary stuff.

nice job on the scratch removal!

[OctaneGuy]

Thanks Ken. He's doing better. Fortunately it didn't cause too much damage, and it was caught early. He was lucky because he'd been away in Europe for the past 2 weeks, and it happened just after he got back home.

As for the scratch repair, I thought I'd throw in a few more cents on wet sanding.

Here is how I learned to wetsand.

1.) Get a MINI body panel from a body shop or a friend


2.) Get some Meguiar's 2500 Unigrit paper and cut off a small piece. Soak it in a bucket of car wash solution for a few hours. Overnight is best.


3.) Find some defects. In this case there were gouges and scratches along with glue residue from the old MINI logo.


4.) After cleaning the residue with Goo Gone, this what was left


5.) Now carefully sand the scratches in the direction they exist. And prepare to get a little scared as the clearcoat turns foggy.


6.) Using your rotary buffer with a cutting pad and a good compound like M84, buff out the sanding marks. It only takes a few seconds of very light touches to get them out.




Here's another example. A ball point pen. While the ink is easily removed, the scratch that's left behind was wetsanded because it was fun!


Ink Removed, Scratches remain


Wetsanded


And polished out


Finally if you've ever wondered what this same rotary buffer will do to your paint if you aren't careful? This test was just to see how long it would take to destroy the paint. This is just a few seconds of the buffer on edge.

[ofioliti]

Originally Posted by Minitee

... I'm wondering if there isn't some sort of clear-coat filler you could apply to make them much less visible (even in the direct light)?

I am wondering too.

For deep scratches in the clear coat (but not to the paint), could one apply the clearcoat (in the the MINI touch up kit, for example) to fill in the "valleys" then polish the area?

[bolus]

Richard,

That's such a great idea, I need to find an old panel from a mini to experiment on. I wonder where I could find one... hmmmm

I hope your father has a speedy recovery

[OctaneGuy]

re: father
Thank you

re: Panel
It's actually quite simple. I can tell you two personal examples. The way I got this panel was that my friend got rear ended. He asked the body shop for the panels after they were replaced and they said sure!

Another friend & club member called up his local MINI dealer and asked for their body shop. Then he called the shop and asked if they had a MINI part they were willing to discard so he could practice using touch up paint. His plan was to intentionally cause rock chips with a sling shot!

Anyways, it was as simple as that. He got a full silk green bonnet that was in almost perfect condition just for the asking.

Originally Posted by bolus

Richard,

That's such a great idea, I need to find an old panel from a mini to experiment on. I wonder where I could find one... hmmmm

I hope your father has a speedy recovery

[ImagoX]

Calling Mini for a panel is a wonderful idea... I'll have to try that. Knowing how to do this is a great skill to have regardless of your car- eventually they WILL get hit/dinged and need the repair work. Seems pretty simple, actually, but I have one question:

Is a rotary/orbital polisher the only option for the final Mirror Glaze step, or if the area's small enough can you realistically expect to be able to do it by hand? I've not yet chipped or scratched my car, but I suspect (hope) that it will be something minor initially, needing only a few square inches of repair work.

Great thread guys- thanks so much for posting!

[OctaneGuy]

An orbital buffer won't remove sanding marks. You need a rotary buffer. However can you remove sanding marks by hand? And the answer is yes. You don't need a rotary buffer. But your results may not be as good as you expect. Some people have gotten away with small pads on their drills. This can work fine if you practice. No sense in burning holes in your clearcoat either!

As for seeming simple. Remember, I've practiced with the rotary buffer quite a bit. For a Pro, the rotary is a must learn tool and with careful use, can make quick work of these kinds of defects.

However if you get a test panel, and are willing to learn, you can buy a Hitachi rotary buffer for less than $100. I paid close to $200 for my Makita.

I believe Kenchan and a few others can elaborate on how they get out sanding marks without a rotary buffer.

Richard

Originally Posted by ImagoX

Calling Mini for a panel is a wonderful idea... I'll have to try that. Knowing how to do this is a great skill to have regardless of your car- eventually they WILL get hit/dinged and need the repair work. Seems pretty simple, actually, but I have one question:

Is a rotary/orbital polisher the only option for the final Mirror Glaze step, or if the area's small enough can you realistically expect to be able to do it by hand? I've not yet chipped or scratched my car, but I suspect (hope) that it will be something minor initially, needing only a few square inches of repair work.

Great thread guys- thanks so much for posting!

[Squirlz]

I have sets of 2" x 2" foam backed sanding pads that I use for my model paint. They go from 2400 to 12000 grit. With my experience polishing model car paint, would something like this be useful on a light scratch?

[ImagoX]

Squirlz, have you tried other solutions first? If the scratch is very light, you may just be able to polish it out by hand with Macguire's Mirror Glaze (get the regular stuff, not the stuff for rotary polishers). I used to work in a motorcycle dealership, and we got out all kinds of scratches in plastic and painted metal (and even clear plastic windscreens) with just a little elbow grease, time and Mirror Glaze. As I recall, the higher the number, the finer the "grit" and the richer the shine, and when I had bikes I had like 2-3 different grades at all times, and started with the lower-numbered stuff to get out the main scratch, then moved higher to restore the shine. that was years ago, though, so something better might be out now- I'm sure poeple here will say if that's true.

Good luck!

[bolus]

Originally Posted by Squirlz

I have sets of 2" x 2" foam backed sanding pads that I use for my model paint. They go from 2400 to 12000 grit. With my experience polishing model car paint, would something like this be useful on a light scratch?

Hmm, I thought of the same thing since I have a bunch of really fine sand paper for modeling. At this point though, I am not going to use any sandpaper unless I have an old panel to practice on first.

[bolus]

So I called to the local Mini recommended body shop and they would be happy to give me a damaged Mini panel. They only have a hood right now which isn't going to fit in the back so I'll have to check back with them.

The bad thing is that this is probably going to lead me to buy a bunch of products just to play with on a damaged panel

[OctaneGuy]

I personally don't like using pads for wetsanding, Invariably I will end up touching good paint rather than the scratched one. I prefer a small sheet of paper that gives me full control. For larger areas like orange peel, a sanding block is great!

As for Meguiar's Mirror Glaze--that is what I was referring to.

M80 or M83. There are only a few Meguiar's polishes that can be used by hand as well as by machine. ScratchX was specifically formulated to be used by hand and that's the best place to start.

Ooops I posted part of this response to the wrong forum......deleted next paragraph.

Bolus
good deal! Amazing how simple it is isn't it??? Haha maybe we can start collecting dismantled MINI parts and sell them in the Marketplace..JK.

[bolus]

Originally Posted by OctaneGuy

Bolus
good deal! Amazing how simple it is isn't it??? Haha maybe we can start collecting dismantled MINI parts and sell them in the Marketplace..JK.

I'm already getting ideas about assembling a giant robot or perhaps a giant mobile made of mini panels