A Question for Agranger and BradB

[Frank in Toledo]

Reading here I notice the mention of using an electric buffer.

Since buffers run in a circular motion and you are supposed to use a straight forward to back motion; doesn't the buffer cause spider webs?

[lotsie]

Originally Posted by Frank in Toledo

Reading here I notice the mention of using an electric buffer.

Since buffers run in a circular motion and you are supposed to use a straight forward to back motion; doesn't the buffer cause spider webs?

I'll try to answer that. They are dual action, rotating and orbiting in a random motion. Plus you move the buffer in straight lines.

I just used one for the first time yesterday, had some very light swirls, their gone now

[chrisneal]

Mr. Lot, I think you may want to have that elephantiasis in your left arm checked out.

[agranger]

Good answer!

There are 2 main types of buffers

1: Rotary - I leave these to the professionals. Imagine attaching a buffing wheel to the end of your drill and you now understand the motion that these things have. They can cause a lot of swirl marks and scratches in inexperienced hands and can wear through paint in a hurry. I don't own one and I don't plan to own one. If I ever have a scratch deep enough that my PCDA can't take care of it, I'll seek out the help of a very thoughtful professional.

This is the type of machine most detailing shops have. If the guy they just hired from high-school yesterday gets ahold of it, he will destroy your paint! It takes a skilled and attentive hand... these are few and far between. I spent 45 minutes removing the marks that a dealership put on the hood of an Astro Black MINI a few weeks ago and they only buffed out 1/2 a square foot of the hood. In the hands of a master, it can remove a fairly deep scratch (as long as it isn't through to the metal or primer). I've seen a new black BMW 7 series F-ed up by a "buffer jockey" who got a bit of grit on his pad and polished the entire surface of the car... with high gloss wax, it looked great until the new owner washed it once or twice...


2: Random Orbit, Dual-Action - The Porter Cable Dual Action (PCDA) is a perfect example of this. It is sold at Autopia (and rebranded as a Meguiars product on the Meguiars website) and is generally used with foam pads. Imagine the wax on / wax off movement from Karate Kid... now make it very, very small... now do it 2000 to 5000 times a minute... this will give you an idea of the movement. Because of the even pressure from the foam pad and the short throw (movement) of the polisher, it doesn't cause the circular swirl marks you might expect (unless you have dirt on your pad).

The swirl marks everyone warns you about are caused by your towels or dirt on your towels. If you go in straight lines, you are still micro-marring your finish, but the scratches are much less noticeable.

The random orbit motion and the foam pad combine to make a very safe product for the home enthusiast. You should still be careful around the corners and edges to prevent burning through the paint, but it is pretty safe overall. I love my PCDA and it has saved me many hours of hand polishing and salvaged a few neglected/injured finishes.


I hope this helps!

[BradB]

...Yea what he said.

Quality electric buffers and pads are just so "even and efficient" with their application that defects that they do put in are harder to notice than those we put in by our own hands which have uneven pressure and uneven distribution of product.

This doesn't mean that buffers are perfect, you can do a crappy job with them if you don't use the right products, pads or just use a junky buffer. But most results are better than by hand only.

..................

To expand a little on what agranger stated about Rotary buffers...the main difference between them and Ranom Orbitals is the amount of heat they generate. Since they just spin in circles they keep the pad motion concentrated in a specific area. This allows the paint to build up heat, soften and allows abrasives to work much more quickly and aggressively than they ever possibly could with a Random Orbital. The good news: you can get out deeper scratches, repair more damaged paint, work faster, etc. The bad news: You can damage paint and "burn" through the top coat in a matter of seconds. It takes a lot of practice to master a Rotary whereas a Rando Orbital is "safe" to use by a novice...even though it takes a lot of practice to become "good" with one.

[jwardell]

I've seen a TON of recommendations for the Porter Cable polisher. It's not that I wouldn't love one myself but it's not worth the money for free, when my arm is free. Plus, I can really use the excercise.

I do have a random orbit sander, but I assume that is not quite the same thing even if I mounted a nice soft microfiber pad to it. (right??)

[BradB]

Originally Posted by jwardell

I do have a random orbit sander, but I assume that is not quite the same thing even if I mounted a nice soft microfiber pad to it. (right??)

Actually, they ARE the same thing. The Porter Cable 7424, for instance, is the same exact machine depending on which velcro head you put on it. A sanding pad or a buffing pad.

Check this link.

[jwardell]

This is what I have given to me as a joke gift after I spent 3 days hand-sanding and repainting a part of the bumper of my last car that I scraped. :D Have yet to use it.

It has a velcro pad.
So you think if I get some decent polishing pads I can use it for waxing?
I would be too afraid.

[lotsie]

Originally Posted by jwardell

This is what I have given to me as a joke gift after I spent 3 days hand-sanding and repainting a part of the bumper of my last car that I scraped. :D Have yet to use it.

It has a velcro pad.
So you think if I get some decent polishing pads I can use it for waxing?
I would be too afraid.

That in my view is for sanding, not polishing or buffing. It does not go slow enough. It's slowest rpm is faster than my PC's fastest.

Speed generates heat. Heat is bad when your doing stuff on your paint.

[jwardell]

Good point. Well I ordered two pads from autopia, because I have a touch-up paint disaster to at least polish down. I'll probably stick with doing things by hand, which is easy any way with zaino.