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Hello,
This is my first post and I apologize for the necessary plea for help right away. Normally I like to post a few helpful remarks before asking for help but here is my situation.
After washing and drying the car today I decided to try the ZPC on the top of my Mini-Cooper. It is a black top so I see a lot of fine spider webbing. I've done the z-5 and it helped a bit so I was hoping that the Z-PC would do an even better job at hiding them.
I applied the Z-PC to a small known area with spider webbing. After the initial application with light pressure for about 1 min, I didn't notice any improvements. So I tried again with a bit more pressure. Of course I put more Z-PC on the applicator. I don't know what type of firm pressure they are describing on the directions that they give you. Firm like a military type or like firmly holding your wife's hand...anyways I decided to put a bit more pressure. After doing about another 30 seconds and not seeing the original spider webbing get any softer looking, I wiped off the polish and found that I had put a lot of little scratches in the paint. I mean a lot of micro scratches. Ok, so now I'm thinking well maybe that's normal and z-5 and z-2 will hide some of that.
So after doing the last Z-PC step and not wanting to scratch the paint anymore, I decided to go put 2 coats of z-5 on. It did help hide most of the new micro scratches but not all of them. The original webbing is still there and after the z-2 coat and spraying z-6 in between each layer of z-5 and z-2, I now have a bit more scratches than I started out with. Lucky me! I'm very frustrated at this point because I obviously do not want to put more scratches on especially with a product that is suppose to take them out.
I'm using their supplied applicator that I have a few of, using 100% cotton towels to wipe down the wax, and at this point, I don't know what else to do.
Please help! I love their product but need to get these spider webbing out, slight as they may be, but they need to get out if I'm to be able to compare the car to my neighbors who is an avid Meguiars fiend and know that I'm using the longer lasting product. HAHA! But I may just move on over to the NXT line if it hides the scratches better and with much less effort.
But honestly, I've waited about 3 hours so I could calm down and write a hopefully sensible post voicing my frustration. So I'm very curious as to your reply and what I'm doing wrong so that I may fix my problem.
Welcome to the board. I can only advise you from the perspective of a Meguiar's fiend. :smile:
NXT is good, and being the "next big thing", there's a bunch of folks touting it. To be honest, most mass-market polishes and waxes will give you very good results -- without having to follow the complex procedures the Zaino requires. I've gotten good results with Mother's products as well.
A mild clearcoat-safe polish and then a topping of wax should solve the problem. Just stay calm, use mild products and gentle application.
Hope this helps...
__________________
- Kevin (Mr. Obsessive/Compulsive)
2005 Jet Black MCS - got it 7/5/05 (sold)
Spec: white roof & mirrors/multifunction wheel/S-lites
I don't know what Z-PC but it sounds like a cleaner of some sort. Most cleaners are abrasive and can cause fine lines as they work. They remove large swirls, but sometimes leave their own marks in the process.
Black paint requires extra care as it shows all marks.
I have had good luck with Meguires cleaners... especially their fine cut cleaner. Best to consult them for which to use.
As for waxes. I use Zaino with great results. Have never tried NXT.
These are not really waxes... they are chemicals that bond with the paint.
Waxes such as carnuba are very different. You end up smearing wax on your car... as it doesn't bond to paint. I'm not saying that conventional waxes don't work, they do but in a topical sort of way..
Sounds like you just need the right product to fix the swirls.. Just be sure to get something thats easy on the clearcoat.
__________________
05 MCS **** SOLD ****
2007 Infiniti G35 Sport
After re-reading the message I trust I didn't offend any Meguiars lovers. I've been very impressed by my neighbor's black corvette that he works on with Meguiars so when I asked him if he knew anything about Zainos he said he hadn't heard of them. So then I told him, that I'd try out the Zainos and then compare cars after I'm done with all the steps. Hah, now I'm a detailing enthusiast because of all the different steps.
I have a request to call Sal at Zainos and speak with him about the Z-PC so I will keep you all updated on my conversations.
Wafin,
While I haven't used ZPC yet, I've found that the Zaino brothers are very good at answering questions either on the phone or by email. Contact them.
Wayne
First of all, Z PC will not hide anything. It has no fillers and therefore is not meant for that purpose. Z PC is meant to REMOVE the swirls.
With that said, it seems that it contains "diminishing abrasives." From this i would think that you need to work the product long enough so that it completely diminishes leaving a smooth surface.
From what I have learned from autopia.org, it seems that trying to remove swirls by hand is very difficult. You will need to work the area for MUCH longer than 30 seconds. The heat needs to build up to allow the product to work. Everybody at autopia.org advised against swirl removal by hand, it is best to use a machine polisher.
As for the scratches you are getting I'm not sure where they are coming from, but it may be your towels. Although some towels claim to be 100% they are not, or the lining tends to be made of something else. i would suggest you go for microfiber. Also, I know this might sound stupid, but make sure your car is very clean before attempting polishing. Lastly, it may be like others said, that the Z PC itself has abrasives and since you are not working it long enough, it would not have the chance to "diminish" and correct itself.
With all this said and done. swirl removal is a big task by hand and you may want to consider filling.
Just a hunch but from what I read you used the free zaino applicator to polish the ZPC. I think that's your problem.
First, those free applicators are crap. Yeah they're 100% cotton, but they still feel abrasive. Rub it on your skin, it hurts. It may be OK for something soft like applying wax...but you are using it to apply a fine abrasive...the pressure points in the large fibers combined with the abrasive is what's scratching things. After a few washes, the free zaino applicators have fallen apart, almost disintegrated on me. Hey, they're free, what do you expect. (I do get continued use out of the foam on the inside for vinyl cleaning, seats, etc)
You should want a smoother fabric without the large pile for abrasives such as ZPC. A simple cotton towel (t-shirt fabric) would probably do better than a high-pile terry towel. Or possibly a soft microfiber applicator like this .
I tried ZPC last week with the same disappointing results...the paint's shine was showroom new, but the swirls remained. Invisible in the shade, but obvious in bright direct sunlight. When I spoke to Sal, he said ZPC is primarily a paint cleaner. He said the swirl removal may or may not happen, and that I may have to go outside the Zaino product line.
He cautioned me about Scratch X, saying that 3M might be milder. Better to try that first.
I'm still getting tons of compliments on my cars glowing finish. The only person who really notices the swirls is ME! Mine is garage kept so the finish is going to stay good looking for a while.
When I tackle it again, though, I'm thinking I'll try NXT first and see if it does a better job on the swirls. If not, I'll do the 3M swirl stuff, probably by hand. I'll leave machining to the pros...I might do more harm than good.
BTW, does anyone notice a difference between NXT Liquid and NXT Paste?
I'll second the thought that the scratches were probably created by your choice in applicators. Even towels will get small bits of stuff in them (even undisloved detergent particles if you use powdered detergent on them).
I use Meguiars Scratch-X on small, localized scratches but I turn to other products for the whole car approach:
1. The 3M line of swirl-mark remover and compounds. Good quality stuff.
2. The Sonus SFX line of 3 products... paint polish, swirl mark remover and compound... they have funny names like 'Restore', 'Renew' and something else... I got them at www.autopia-carcare.com and love 'em.
I tried the z pc, and I also had the same results. It is an abrasive and would be really hard to get good results by hand. I trid a little by hand first, didnt like the results, took a shot at it with the pc, much better but there was still a slight evidence that an abrasive was used so I switched to a different product ( meguairs #80 ) and finished up. I am going to give it one more sho ( Z PC ) with the rotary just to see how it acts. From what I saw the rotary may be the best way to use it, but I wont be getting any more of it.
Personally I use 99% meguairs products, they give excellent results and are very consistant. ALso meguairs customer service is top notch !
Z-PC is a part of the Zaino line that I'm not familiar with. As an avid Zaino fan, I wholeheartedly endorse the Zaino product line.
If you start with clean paint, then follow the Z6, Z5, Z6, Z2, Z6, Z2, Z6 routine, you will end up with fantastic results that both looks great and lasts long. The routine sounds a bit cumbersome, but the product goes on and comes off so easily that it's really not bad at all. And, it really does last exceptionally well.
That said, they're not the only company making good paint care products. The Z5 will hide some light scratches. After trying it on a small area, if you still see the scratches, I'd try 3M Swirl Mark remover. Be gentle and patient. Let the product do the work, not your muscles When you're satisfied with the shine, go back over the area with a couple coats of Z2 to protect the paint.
No slam on NXT. I use it on my track car. But for my MINI... It's always Zaino.
Best of luck. Keep us posted.
__________________
eMINI
'05 MCS DS/B w/ Aero, M7 Pulley, IK22, JCW 380's, A'PEXi AFC2, H-Sport, SSR Comp's, Goodyear GSD3's, LSD, Sport/Premium/Cold Packs, Anthracite Headliner & Trim, Chromeline Interior, Black Leather w/ Red Cloth, HK Audio, UltraShield, Zaino, Huper Optik
Regarding liquid vs. paste wax, I don't think there's much difference. Apparently the technology has progressed to the point that there is no advantage to paste wax. Use whichever you're more comfortable with.
I think most companies still produce pastes to appeal to a broader market. No offense regarding Meguiar's stuff... just use whatever you like! :smile:
__________________
- Kevin (Mr. Obsessive/Compulsive)
2005 Jet Black MCS - got it 7/5/05 (sold)
Spec: white roof & mirrors/multifunction wheel/S-lites
For those of you who are interested I had a chance to play a little with the Z pc and the rotary polisher.
Here is my opinion...
On the lable it states by hand, pc or rotary,
By hand, in my opinion its way to agressive to use by hand, for those of you who try it and get good results my hat is off to you.
By Pc, it works decently by pc but if you look close it still leaves a little maring behind even on a lighter car ( red one ) you could see the marring if you know what to look for
Rotary, the is the only place you should use the Z pc. It works very nicely with a rotary and a polishing pad. I re did the area on my black mcs that I had previously marred with the Z pc by hand and the results were very good ! From what I can tell its similar in nature to Meguairs #83 with the exception of #83 working better by hand and by pc than the zaino product. On the rotary the results were very similar with the exception of the zaino products staying wet longer.
Conclusion...
Given the choice money not being an issue I would go with Meguairs #83 , money being an issue I would definitly go with meguairs!
For those of you who are interested I had a chance to play a little with the Z pc and the rotary polisher.
Here is my opinion...
On the lable it states by hand, pc or rotary,
By hand, in my opinion its way to agressive to use by hand, for those of you who try it and get good results my hat is off to you.
By Pc, it works decently by pc but if you look close it still leaves a little maring behind even on a lighter car ( red one ) you could see the marring if you know what to look for
Rotary, the is the only place you should use the Z pc. It works very nicely with a rotary and a polishing pad. I re did the area on my black mcs that I had previously marred with the Z pc by hand and the results were very good ! From what I can tell its similar in nature to Meguairs #83 with the exception of #83 working better by hand and by pc than the zaino product. On the rotary the results were very similar with the exception of the zaino products staying wet longer.
Conclusion...
Given the choice money not being an issue I would go with Meguairs #83 , money being an issue I would definitly go with meguairs!
I need to, one, see Zaino on a car, any car, in person. Two, I have to use Zaino. Then I will make a desision. Until then I'm sticking to and very happy with Meguiars. Got myself a good supply, so guess I'm going to just keep using it.
But if someone wants to send me some samples of Zaino, well I'll give it a go
05 MCS BLK/BLK Prem Pkg, Armrest, Chrome grill, Alpine 9857,PAC-ALP, Focal Access 165A1 components
When you're satisfied with the shine, go back over the area with a couple coats of Z2 to protect the paint.
