No choice but to do things by hand...

[kurisu]

Hello everyone,

First post here, been lurking since a bit before I got my Astro Black MCSa on Valentine's Day (no less!). (some pics here)
I moved to Japan oh about 8 years ago, and it's my first car here (long story, the licence conversion process was not simple...). However I carried over some of my products (mostly Zaino, hey, that was the hot stuff back in 2000!) and while taking care of my boss' cars (one old 1966 MG and one 1996 Carrera) I had to restock not so long ago and so I still have quite a bunch of Zaino products, so don't hate me for it ok ! I didn't know better back then !

Anyways...
As you might imagine, living in downtown Tokyo makes it quite tricky to take care of a car. I live on the 2nd floor of a mansion, thus I managed to buy a 20 metres hose reel that makes it possible to wash my Mini with the hose coming out the window down to the _small_ parking area.
However, one thing that is very impossible is to use powertools (regulations and obvious problems of cable length for one, the other being that Porter Cable doesn't sell tools here), so my only solution is to use hand tools.

Now, I've been reading very knowledgeable stuff from OctaneGuy as well as BradB and Heather from DP about pads (on the assumption that I would end up using Prima products down the line, but also with Z-PC), so I ordered quite a few things :

• Wolfgang Polishing Pal
• 2 CCS 4" Orange Pads
• 2 CCS 4" White Pads
• 2 CCS 4" Gray Pads
• 2 CCS 4" Red Pads

Basically, I tried to reproduce a typical PC setup with the Polishing Pad.

So, as I said, I still have a bunch of Zaino products (ZAIO, Z-PC, Z2, Z3[that's for the old MG], Z5, Z6, Z7 and Z8) that I would like to use (until I run out ! then I can finally try those Prima products everyone's raving about )

I've got swirly A and B pillars, as well as very very fine webbing mainly on the hood that I'd like to minimise. The car is garaged at all times and is driven mainly during the weekends.

I guess I'm looking for advices, but purely on working by hand. I've been searching the forums quite a bit but most of the threads end up talking about doing the work with a PC. I know it's going to be physically intensive, I'm ready for it, one panel at a time !

I realise in my first post I'm already asking for favours, but I'd appreciate any feedback you guys might want to give

thanks !

Christopher

P.S.: I would LOVE to get a nice random orbital, but until I move to a place where I have my own garden/garage, that's not going to be feasible.

[OctaneGuy]

Congrats on your MINI! You know, when you don't have machine tools to remove defects...the best alternative is to just mask them.

While you could expend a lot of effort to do it by hand...you'll probably enjoy it more just using good products with filling capabilities. The Zaino products you've got will do that just fine.

If you can manage to get some Prima Banana Gloss and Amigo...both of those products will a long ways towards improving your finish without too much effort, but BG cannot be shipped by air.

Richard

Originally Posted by kurisu

Hello everyone,

First post here, been lurking since a bit before I got my Astro Black MCSa on Valentine's Day (no less!). (some pics here)
I moved to Japan oh about 8 years ago, and it's my first car here (long story, the licence conversion process was not simple...). However I carried over some of my products (mostly Zaino, hey, that was the hot stuff back in 2000!) and while taking care of my boss' cars (one old 1966 MG and one 1996 Carrera) I had to restock not so long ago and so I still have quite a bunch of Zaino products, so don't hate me for it ok ! I didn't know better back then !

Anyways...
As you might imagine, living in downtown Tokyo makes it quite tricky to take care of a car. I live on the 2nd floor of a mansion, thus I managed to buy a 20 metres hose reel that makes it possible to wash my Mini with the hose coming out the window down to the _small_ parking area.
However, one thing that is very impossible is to use powertools (regulations and obvious problems of cable length for one, the other being that Porter Cable doesn't sell tools here), so my only solution is to use hand tools.

Now, I've been reading very knowledgeable stuff from OctaneGuy as well as BradB and Heather from DP about pads (on the assumption that I would end up using Prima products down the line, but also with Z-PC), so I ordered quite a few things :

• Wolfgang Polishing Pal
• 2 CCS 4" Orange Pads
• 2 CCS 4" White Pads
• 2 CCS 4" Gray Pads
• 2 CCS 4" Red Pads

Basically, I tried to reproduce a typical PC setup with the Polishing Pad.

So, as I said, I still have a bunch of Zaino products (ZAIO, Z-PC, Z2, Z3[that's for the old MG], Z5, Z6, Z7 and Z8) that I would like to use (until I run out ! then I can finally try those Prima products everyone's raving about )

I've got swirly A and B pillars, as well as very very fine webbing mainly on the hood that I'd like to minimise. The car is garaged at all times and is driven mainly during the weekends.

I guess I'm looking for advices, but purely on working by hand. I've been searching the forums quite a bit but most of the threads end up talking about doing the work with a PC. I know it's going to be physically intensive, I'm ready for it, one panel at a time !

I realise in my first post I'm already asking for favours, but I'd appreciate any feedback you guys might want to give

thanks !

Christopher

P.S.: I would LOVE to get a nice random orbital, but until I move to a place where I have my own garden/garage, that's not going to be feasible.

[kurisu]

Thanks Richard!

I do realise that, and that's my target, as here the dust and pollen is out of control, so I understand that my best option is to hide rather than completely correct. But I'm stubborn and I'd like to at least give it a try !

(Sakura season has just ended and while it's all pretty when you have cherry blossom gently falling on your hood while you're at a stop light, when you see the mess it leaves, it's crazy ! and the dust... oh my...)

The Z5 pro is nice, but as everyone will agree, it really only hides the teeny-tiniest of fine swirls, so that is why I am coming to you guys to see whatever (however minimal) amount of correction I can do before sealing it up with my remaining Z2pro.

Has anyone had experience with Z-PC and the Polishing Pad (or similar) ?

btw, as a side note, I've ordered some Black WOW as well as Nero and Clarity from DP yesterday so that I can also take care of the interior and trim

Originally Posted by OctaneGuy

Congrats on your MINI! You know, when you don't have machine tools to remove defects...the best alternative is to just mask them.

While you could expend a lot of effort to do it by hand...you'll probably enjoy it more just using good products with filling capabilities. The Zaino products you've got will do that just fine.

If you can manage to get some Prima Banana Gloss and Amigo...both of those products will a long ways towards improving your finish without too much effort, but BG cannot be shipped by air.

Richard

[MiniMaybee]

I've used Z-PC by hand and as long as you're ready for some work, and your area is limited then it should work pretty well. IMO Scratch-X works faster but Z-PC works too. I can't comment on the Wolfgang pads but I can show you what I used for hand polishing:

from here: Autopia
What's nice is the yellow side is firm and good for polish while the black side is softer and good for wax.

[kurisu]

Thank you MiniMaybee! Glad to read you could obtain results with Z-PC by hand.
Thanks also to MLPearson79 for the feedback!

I found a similar pad here in Tokyo (though the choice is slim pickin' like you wouldn't believe... of all countries you'd think Japan imported all the good stuff or at least produced some local alternatives...), dual side, one yellow for polish, one black for wax, and I've given it a try about a week ago on the trunk bumper area where a friend of mine made a scratch pulling out a backpack .

It does "work" so to speak, but (no bad joke intended) my hand got sore after firmly holding the pad for like 5 minutes .

That's why I ordered this Polishing Pal thingy, since it seems to have a more ergonomic grip. I have not received it yet so I cannot comment on it being more or less comfortable. Once I do I'll certainly let you know.

@OctaneGuy : You are a wise one Amigo is high on my wish list! but I would like to finish my bottles of Z stuff first, as I know that if I get the Prima products now, perfectly usable Zaino will go unused and wasted...
About the Banana Gloss : yeah, that stuff is classed IMDG 3.2 and requires special precaution when transported by air and even by ship if the quantity is consequent enough (like a gallon or more I'd say). I work in shipping and more and more Owners are getting picky about what can be loaded even on board bulkers...

So back on subject : any tips on hand application (like direction, which pad with ZPC, stuff like that)? I read somewhere that OctaneGuy's DVD has a section on hand application but I've checked on his website and it's out of stock.

I very much appreciate you guys taking the time to answer !

just to be sure : you can't top Amigo with Z5 or Z2, can you ? coz while I admit that compared to some of the AB Mini I've seen detailed with Prima stuff on these forums, Zaino lacks that "je ne sais quoi", I'm not _that_ unhappy with what 2 coats of Z5pro and 1 coat of Z2pro can do :



cheers !

Christopher

[lotsie]

I see no reason to not apply the Zaino products over Amigo.

Mark

[ofioliti]

Originally Posted by kurisu

... I'm not _that_ unhappy with what 2 coats of Z5pro and 1 coat of Z2pro can do :


...
cheers !

Christopher

This is a very nice picture, Christopher!

Zaino ain't bad. I still use the stuff because I still have some

[OctaneGuy]

Cool deal on the Black Wow. Thanks!!

Originally Posted by kurisu

btw, as a side note, I've ordered some Black WOW as well as Nero and Clarity from DP yesterday so that I can also take care of the interior and trim

I do have a few DVD's left. I've gotten really behind on making a new batch...I'm weeks behind.....I thought I was only going to be out of stock for a few weeks..but taking longer than expected. But I do have one or two DVD's left. Send me a PM if you want one.

Originally Posted by kurisu

So back on subject : I read somewhere that OctaneGuy's DVD has a section on hand application but I've checked on his website and it's out of stock.



cheers !

Christopher

[kurisu]

Really ? uhm if that's the case I might need to rethink some stuff perhaps someone from Prima can chime in ?

Originally Posted by lotsie

I see no reason to not apply the Zaino products over Amigo.

Thank you ! I'm more of a landscape kinda photographer so taking picture of my Mini is challenging me on many levels (not the least perspective)! I am still not satisfied with the way I shoot cars, I need much more "practice". But that one shot has something to it that I like

Originally Posted by ofioliti

This is a very nice picture, Christopher!

Thanks ! firm pressure, I assume you also mean balanced/equal on all surface, that's the hard part
I've taken on Richard's offer for one copy of his dvd. I'm quite eager to learn from a pro

Originally Posted by MLPearson79

As far as tips for working by hand, the big tip is when polishing, use firm pressure and lots of elbow grease. OG's video does have some tips on hand polishing so it may be a good investment for you!

[MLPearson79]

Yeah I've used that same pad when I used to work by hand and it works well. I've never used Z-PC but Scratch-X by hand with that pad worked pretty well for me.

[MLPearson79]

As far as tips for working by hand, the big tip is when polishing, use firm pressure and lots of elbow grease. OG's video does have some tips on hand polishing so it may be a good investment for you!

[kenchan]

you live in japan and still using the stuff sold in the US?

COME ON try the japanese stuff. you are aware
that only in japan they import bmw's that have been
wet-sanded before delivery due to very picky people.

[kurisu]

Hello Kenchan!
You must know something I don't !
The products sold here in car goods shops like Autobacs are either the stuff sold in the US (Zymol is big in Japan actually!), or some weird products like sponges pre-soaked in wax that they market as "ultra easy, shiny and durable", but have left nothing but an oily mess on my girlfriend's motorcycle...

If you start looking for non-otc stuff, then it's treatments like "glass coating" that are not sold to individuals but only performed at a workshop, cost a fortune each time, and all the places I know my boss has tried with his Carrera have made the paint look worse because they simply wash the car and apply their stuff, no correction.

They wetsand BMW sold here? Well then I have a thing or two to say to my dealer, coz my Mini's paint is like orange peel and their "prep" before delivering it to me was certainly not performed by someone "picky"!

I genuinely never have found anything equivalent to say Zaino or Klasse in Japan. Perhaps I'm misinformed. How did you learn about BMWs being wetsanded for picky Japanese customers? I certainly would be very happy to find someone here that could do as good a job as the pros we have on these forums!

Originally Posted by kenchan

you live in japan and still using the stuff sold in the US?

COME ON try the japanese stuff. you are aware
that only in japan they import bmw's that have been
wet-sanded before delivery due to very picky people.

[ofioliti]

Originally Posted by kurisu

Hello Kenchan!
...
The products sold here in car goods shops like Autobacs are either the stuff sold in the US (Zymol is big in Japan actually!), or some weird products like sponges pre-soaked in wax that they market as "ultra easy, shiny and durable", ...

Pictures, please! I love crazy Japanese products!

[kurisu]

OK !

Well, I'll take pictures of the shelves of one of the big auto superstore perhaps next week-end.

Meantime, here are two examples of the fun stuff we can see here :

first, a picture taken at the autosuperstore's electronics department :
IMG_0055.JPG


then, not for the faint hearted, a pink Porsche I spotted in a parking of a very trendy (read: expensive) area of Tokyo (Ebisu, for those who've been here) :
IMG_0048.jpg


(I apologise for the poor quality of the shots (with my iPhone))

Originally Posted by ofioliti

Pictures, please! I love crazy Japanese products!

[ofioliti]

Originally Posted by kurisu

OK !

Well, I'll take pictures of the shelves of one of the big auto superstore perhaps next week-end.

Meantime, here are two examples of the fun stuff we can see here :

first, a picture taken at the autosuperstore's electronics department :
Attachment 41265


then, not for the faint hearted, a pink Porsche I spotted in a parking of a very trendy (read: expensive) area of Tokyo (Ebisu, for those who've been here) :
Attachment 41266


(I apologise for the poor quality of the shots (with my iPhone))

Ha ha! East Cloud must cater to male customers only.

My daughter wants this for her future MINI:

[kurisu]

Hello Kitty exhaust !

[kurisu]

Been in contact with Nick from DP about my order of Black Wow,
so I've taken the opportunity to ask about topping Amigo with Z2 or Z5, and it seems there is no conclusive results; some people claim Zaino sealant bonds nicely, some people say they cannot get Zaino to dry and/or cure on top of Amigo, but nobody has proven that the Zaino is still actually present after application on top of Amigo.

I've decided to first go through my Zaino stuff and when I run out, order some Prima products.

Meantime, paging OctaneGuy : I've sent you a PM

[lotsie]

I used to use Zaino products, and I would apply it over Meguairs polishes/fillers with no problems, this is what leads me to believe it will work over Amigo. Maybe do some testing, like half the boot with Amigo, half without, and see how things turn out.

Mark

[kenchan]

i heard and saw the wetsanded bmw on bestmotoring!

[kurisu]

Mark, that's a tempting proposal...
Any case I'll definitely get some Amigo soon along with Hydro and Epic, but I'm picking the right timing so that my GF doesn't get too upset

Originally Posted by lotsie

I used to use Zaino products, and I would apply it over Meguairs polishes/fillers with no problems, this is what leads me to believe it will work over Amigo. Maybe do some testing, like half the boot with Amigo, half without, and see how things turn out.

Mark

Kenchan,
Alright I'll look it up! Though my BMW dealer and also the workshop (the Mini had some transmission problems -the infamous amber gear icon with the exclamation mark) looked at me funny when I asked about detailing services, wetsanding and polishing... kind of like ... they said "you mean the glass sealant?" so I just said thank you for repairing the car and went on my merry way...

Originally Posted by kenchan

i heard and saw the wetsanded bmw on bestmotoring!