Applicators and mixing waxes?

[Rixter]

Ive' got very little experience detailing a cars so advice or my new MCS would be appreciated:

1. Does the type of wax applicator make a difference as far as preventing swirls? I've always used the disposable round terry-cloth pads for applying wax. I noticed people mentioned MF applicators, is that a cloth or pad? Is that preferred over a terry-cloth or spounge pad? Should I wash / reuse my applicator or dispose of them?
2. If I use a good Carnauba wax, can I put a synthetic polly overtop like Hydro? Or do the two not mix? I have some Meguires Yellow Liquid wax around that I was going to use as a base. I also have a bottle of Epic and Hydro on order that should arrive shortly. Am I better off to just stick with one type of wax?

Thanks folks!

[CR&PW&JB]

1. The applicator absolutely matters. Do not apply wax with anything you wouldn't use on your paint with any other product. In other words, yes, you can induce swirls while waxing if you have a cheap, terry towel or a bath towel or anything like that. Use a microfiber cloth or pad. Either one.

2. Yeah, you can put the synthetic wax on top of your natural carnuba. In fact, some prefer that combination. Gives you the depth you get from carnuba along with the gloss from the synthetic. In a dark color, like Jet Black or Chili Red it is especially a good effect.

[MiniMaybee]

So I might differ with my pal CRPWGOTITBACKWARDSJB just a bit.
First if you are going to mix synthetics with carnauba then you want the most durable on bottom meaning the synthetic. A good base of Epic will last far longer then the carnauba. If you reverse it your carnauba will wear off taking the synthetic with it. So carnauba if you must, but do it after a good polymer wax like Epic. Hydro on top of carnauba may help it last a bit longer, but I doubt it.
Now as far as wax applicator I can recommend something like this:

from Sonus. The black side is soft for wax and the yellow side is a bit stiffer and good for polish. If you're using a liquid wax like Epic or Zaino then something like this:

works pretty well. You can find both at: http://www.autopia-carcare.com/applicators.html

[CR&PW&JB]

My good friend, MaybeeChuckMINIMaybee makes a good point regarding the order of applying the waxes. Listen to him, he's smarter than I look.

[Rixter]

Ok I'm getting this sorted out but I'm still a bit confused re:waxes.

Should I just stick with all synthetic all the time? I wasn't sure if the Epic was something I can apply then buff (by hand) or if its more of a wipe-on/wipe-off type of application?

[MiniMaybee]

Synthetics, like Epic are very durable with 4 - 6 month protection. Epic can be used by hand and is easily removed. It is more expensive then off the shelf carnuabas but you use only about two tablespoons for a MINI and it lasts 4 times longer so it is much more economical.
Tips for synthetics - preparation, application and curing.
First you will want to clean the finish. This may involve using Dawn for the wash and/or clay bar to remove all oils and bonded contaminates. Most of us will follow this step with polish to remove swirls, but this is best done with a machine like a Porter Cable Dual Action orbiter.
Application should be as thin as possible with temps above 40 deg using a machine or by hand.
Curing is gaged using a swipe test to see if it comes off cleanly, usually about 45 minutes depending on temp & humidity. With Epic curing will continue even after the surface haze has been removed and after 24 hours you will be amazed with the results.
Read up in this forum for more details and tips and check out Detailers Paradise (www.detailersparadise.com) for more products and info.
Just to confuse you a bit more, Hydro is a spray on wax as you dry product that is also synthetic. It will help prolong the life of your wax and can be spritzed on a wet car after washing and then spread while your dry. Good stuff but it does not last as long as Epic.
Finally DP also has a product which combines both a synthetic polymer with a natural carnuaba wax. Banana Gloss has great depth and is super easy to put on and take off even in direct sun. Downside is it still does not last as long as Epic, but it is easy.
So chew on all that.

[lovethecorners]

MiniMaybee's on the money. Here are some bullets:

• Strictly in regard to protection from the elements (UV, rain, etc) synthetics protect for many months, while carnauba only lasts about 6-8 weeks.
• Carnauba waxes can hide swirls while synthetics can sometimes exacerbate swirls/scratches.
• Carnauba has far more depth and richness while a synthetic appears more on top of the paint surface and adds shine.
• Synthetics tend to not show best on dark surfaces while carnauba excels with dark paints.
• Synthetics are much easier to apply and require very little elbow grease, while carnauba is going to take some more effort.

That being said, synthetics and carnaubas can be used in tandem to great effect (great protection afforded by the synthetic and depth from the carnauba). If you are going to apply both a synthetic and a carnauba, it is important to apply the synthetic first and the carnauba after. The synthetic should last for up to six months protecting the paint, and 6-8 weeks or whenever you feel like it, a coat of carnauba will really add depth.

[Rixter]

Ok I think I'm getting this now. The only concern I have is the use of an orbiter (which I dont have nor do I want to invest in) and the use of a clay bar. I have had mixed results with a clay bar. Perhaps it was the bar, perhaps I didn't have enough lube, but on the trunk of my 318 the result was not good. I did get a clay bar with my Epic & Hydro order and I still have a bunch of Mothers surface lubricant I could use if it's really necessary.

I'm planning on washing with a car wash soap, drying with MF towels, then putting on the Epic and just see how it looks after that. My MCS is only 2 weeks old so no waxing has been done yet and the surface still looks pristine (to me). Then following each wash I'm going to spritz on some Hydro. Is this sufficient?

Thanks all, I really appreciate the advise!!!

[lovethecorners]

I've never used an orbiter so I'm little help there besides saying that some waxes/polishes weren't designed for orbiter usage and get too hot and can almost "burn" the paint. So be careful.

In regards to clay bar. I've been using it for a while and never had a problem. You need to make sure you're thoroughly lubricating the area. I use whatever detailing spray I happen to have (my guess is hydro will be ok) When using the claybar you are removing surface contaminants. Even with a new car there may be remnants from shipping protectants applied to the car, metal shards from sitting in an industrial yard, etc. Clay bar removes these. It is also great at removing embedded brake dust. After using the clay bar the surface may look poor especially if using a detailing spray which leaves residue. Using a cleaning wax or detailing spray will remove the residue.

[CR&PW&JB]

Rixter, I'm not sure what you're looking for from the clay bar. It's going to remove surface contaminants and give you a clean surface to finish your detailing project. But it's surely not going to repair any damage to the paint (scratches or swirls).

If you REALLY want a pristine finish on your paint, you really must invest in a random orbital buffer. Yeah, it's a bit expensive, but you'll soon agree it's the best investment you can possibly make for your cars. Your can keep your MINI looking brand-spanking new for years with a buffer, good polish, and the proper technique.

To further add to ltc's comments, make sure you rinse off the clay bar lubricant as you complete each panel. If you don't, it will dry on there and make your life tough. Especially important on vinyl (stripes and such).

[MLPearson79]

I layer based on durability. So I have Epic as the base, then Banana Gloss, then Hydro. So shiny

[Rixter]

Originally Posted by MLPearson79

I layer based on durability. So I have Epic as the base, then Banana Gloss, then Hydro. So shiny

I like the sounds of that. Instead of the Banana Gloss though I'll be substituting the Mcquires' Hi-Tech Yellow Wax then finishing with the Hydro. Now I just need some cooperative weather and some decent applicator / wipes. I ordered some Prima stuff online but for some of the other things I'm just planning on shopping locally.

Thanks folks

[MiniMaybee]

Don't use Hydro with clay. Too expensive and would not provide enough lubrication. Instead use your soapy water, Slick cut 50/50 with water or Glide.
A PCDA will not burn your paint - not enough torque for that. You can get a machine & some pads for less then $200 but if your not in to that level of detailing then no worries. If you MINI looks good to you that is all that is important. Later we'll work on your OCD skills. Have fun and shoot some pictures for us.

[Cali44redrocket]

What I've found when detailing out my car and others....and the application of wax was this....For the paste wax use a very soft foam/sponge type applicator, but for the liquid wax I've had the best results with the fewest swirl marks using a microfiber cloth to apply the wax.
No worries about burning through clear coat either.....IMO

[MLPearson79]

Cool. For me, the Banana Gloss is my favorite part - such great result with such a super-easy product. That, and I just like to keep all my stuff in the same family as much as I can. But if you've got a plan, that's what matters!

[Rixter]

Originally Posted by MLPearson79

Cool. For me, the Banana Gloss is my favorite part - such great result with such a super-easy product. That, and I just like to keep all my stuff in the same family as much as I can. But if you've got a plan, that's what matters!

For some strange reason Banana Gloss is not exported outside the USA. Who knows it could be some top secret compound

[IzzyG]

I believe with Zaino(another synthetic), it will not bond when on top of a carnuba based wax. You can use the synthetic as a base but not as a top off. I'm not sure if this applies to Prima's line of waxes.

(So basically what I'm saying is, you can do Zaino(a synthetic) as base, then carnuba. However, you cannot use Carnuba, then Zaino(synthetic) as the Zaino will not bond.)

By the way, I am 100% behind using Amigo before applying Epic. The increased slickness from Amigo really helps with clarity.

Edit: I forgot to add that the best results I've had is prepping the paint, using Amigo, Epic, BG, QD and then Zaino's CS after everything cures. Surprisingly the CS seems to bond even with BG's touch of carnuba.

[MiniMaybee]

It has Naptha in it so only ground shipping is allowed.

[Rixter]

Is that what the shoebomber was trying to use or was he just trying to hide a bottle of Banana Gloss that he couldn't buy in Europe?

[MiniMaybee]

[lotsie]

Try these guys http://www.coopersport.com/usa/produ...1&cat=0&page=1, Canadian company, that carries Prima products, but I don't see Banana Gloss on their site, but you could ask them about it.

Where are you north of the 49th, I'm an ex-pat from the Winterpeg.

Mark

[Rixter]

Originally Posted by lotsie

Try these guys http://www.coopersport.com/usa/produ...1&cat=0&page=1, Canadian company, that carries Prima products, but I don't see Banana Gloss on their site, but you could ask them about it.

Where are you north of the 49th, I'm an ex-pat from the Winterpeg.

Mark

Mark, that's precisely who I ordered the Hydro and Epic from. Thanks for the tip. It'd be nice though not to have to pay shipping charges and find a local retailer, but I think I'm out of luck on that.