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I tried my PC polisher for the first time today and i am having some trouble. I've only got the swirl polish and the orange, white, and black pads. When I try to polish the black roof with the white pad it seems to remove the big swirls but then I get lots of little fine swirls. I'm trying to figure out if this is from not breaking the polish down enough or if I've got some grit or something on the pad. I washed the pad twice thinking thats what it needed but didn't help. They look clean to me and I'm careful were I sit it down. I was usually working an area for about 3 min. Is this were finish comes in?
Black is soft. Finish or Amigo after the Swirl will probably be in order. I get the same issue on my A-pillars and the roof above my windscreen. I use Swirl on a white pad then Amigo on a white pad to hide what I did not get. Finish though would probably get the fine swirls on out.
i dont use the prima polishes either, but it makes sense wat minimaybee
is saying above, so i would try that.
polish is one abrasive value
pad is also another abrasive value (in simple terms, not actual)
when you add those together you get a working gross abrasive value.
it seems your black pad's abrasive value is too low, therefore,
white which is firmer than black yet softer than orange would make sense
to use.
swirl + orange step1
swirl + white step2
then decide if amigo or finish is needed step3
If you do the complete detail twice a year, you might be able to get away with Swirl on the white pad. Less frequent detailing, or any deeper swirls or scratches, stick with the orange pad.
I like to hit the black with amigo and the black pad before lsp to take out, or at least hide those last little ones. It take a bit of practice with the polisher too ,to make it look as good as possible. Spend some extra time with the white pad and swirl.
I use Prima polishes for the majority of my work--the only time I might use something else is to compound using a wool pad which really fits more in the classification of paint/body work than strictly paint polishing/detailing.
Technique is EVERYTHING. Have you watched my PC DVD yet? For most MINI paints, you can polish with an orange pad and Swirl and go to Epic. Some paints, especially Jet Black--you need to follow with a white pad and Swirl before going to Epic.
Quite often on the flat black paints you will see some marring with the orange pad. A white pad and Swirl will take care of this. Working the product in long enough before it gets to a dry buff is very important for the best results.
I agree with Chuck about the A pillars and marring. Sometimes Finish can help you improve your results--but for dark paints, I do an Amigo pass with a white pad before doing Epic to get the best results.
Richard
__________________ 5548 E. La Palma Ave., Anaheim, CA 92807 866 707 9292
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How can you tell if Swirl is broken down all the way? I think that might be part of the problem because it doesn't wipe off near as easy as the polish in a few of the video clips I've seen of other polishes. I think I may need to get the PC DVD.
Visually. It will become pretty much clear when it's broken down. Once I get to that point, I go another couple of minutes before I move on to the next 2' square.
Keep in mind that polish is harder to remove than wax. Even after working Swirl to a translucent, hazy state (reminds me of college) it is still going to be sticky to remove. I usually use the DP premium (gray) microfiber towel since it has a good biting side and a soft plushy side. I'll go through about three of these during the polish stage.
If you have difficulty removing polish you can spritz a little water or QD to help you (polish is water soluble). Keep it thin and work it long enough and it won't be too bad though.
I have agree with OctaneGuy, a "system" does make things easier. I had always used a hodge podge of products and pads, now while it worked, and I was happy with the end results, keeping things together in the right combination led to some head scratching, and uncertainty, particularly after a long Manitoba winter
I'm now using the Prima system of products and pads, and it just all makes sense, well to me anyway. I also keep both the product and pad combo together in the same ziplock bag, I know that sometimes different products may need to be used with different pads, but this storage methods keeps things in order.
I do have question though, can you work swirl to long, not from a it does no more work, but from a doing damage point. I don't mean working it 1/2 an hour, but a minute or so longer than the recommended time?
Also, does anyone use a microfibre bonnet to remove Epic, or just by do it by hand?
The only real issue is that when you buff too long, the lubricating action of the polish disappears and becomes dry--and you're doing a "dry buff" and that leads to backwards progress! Instead of polishing you end up marring the finish more. So no you won't permanently damage the paint by polishing a few minutes longer, but you'll know because the pad won't move as freely on the paint, and the thin film will look dry and powdery and maybe sticky.
I don't use a MF bonnet for a couple of reasons. Epic and Amigo wipe off super easily--I really like the MF Starfish mitts for this. But the other reason is that with the Meguiar's system, I encountered different paints that would mar when you wiped off the wax--with the paint being so soft. So a MF bonnet on a PC would prevent that by distributing the force over a larger area instead of your fingertips. Since switching to Prima however, those same paints I had issues with, I no longer have them with Swirl and Epic, so that's made the MF bonnets unnecessary.
They do however do a good job at removing wax fast, especially on larger vehicles.
Richard
Quote:
Originally Posted by lotsie
I do have question though, can you work swirl to long, not from a it does no more work, but from a doing damage point. I don't mean working it 1/2 an hour, but a minute or so longer than the recommended time?
Also, does anyone use a microfibre bonnet to remove Epic, or just by do it by hand?
Mark
__________________ 5548 E. La Palma Ave., Anaheim, CA 92807 866 707 9292
Looking for Prima?? Buy Prima at ShowCarSupplies.com
11% off everyday discount code: MINI11NAM 2010 Midnight Black MCCSa
Quite often on the flat black paints you will see some marring with the orange pad. A white pad and Swirl will take care of this. Working the product in long enough before it gets to a dry buff is very important for the best results.
I agree with Chuck about the A pillars and marring. Sometimes Finish can help you improve your results--but for dark paints, I do an Amigo pass with a white pad before doing Epic to get the best results.
Richard
I agree with both points.
Remember again that these are diminishing abrasives.
This means that, for the most part, the longer you work the polish, the more it will break down. You didn't mention how long you're working each section but I suspect you may need to work each section longer... especially on the extra-soft black roof.
As a general rule to start with, I usually recommend working each 2'x2' section for at least 2 minutes. You may be able to get away with slightly less time but more often than not you will need more time. Note: If your environment is particularly dry or hot, then the polish sometimes will start to dry before you get to the 3-4 minute mark. In most conditions though, it will remain workable for several minutes.
Also, on the softer paints (black is often softer, not to mention shows more) you may find some micromarring as a necessary byproduct of correction. In these cases, you should step down either pad or polish (or both). So, if Swirl and the white pad are still producing some micromarring on your black paint even after working the polish long enough, then you may need step down to Finish and the white pad.
Amigo can also be great as a final finishing step but remember that while it may physically remove some micromarring (there is a teeny tiny amount of abrasive in Amigo but not much) it also contains fillers and concealers which will do just as the category implies: fill and conceal. Sometimes, especially on super soft paint, that is just what you have to finish with and forget about removing every single little bit of micromarring. Other times, you may want to try to reach perfection prior to Amigo. It just really depends on both the softness of the paint and your personal style.
Because it makes a lazy putz like me look (at least almost) like a polishing god...
Polish out the big swirls, fill the rest, Epic, drink a beer, call it a day.
Think about how I did NOT spend 14 hours on my detail like OctaneGuy would have...
(though, when I get my Octane gel, it might transform me into a different machine...)
__________________
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Because it makes a lazy putz like me look (at least almost) like a polishing god...
Polish out the big swirls, fill the rest, Epic, drink a beer, call it a day.
Think about how I did NOT spend 14 hours on my detail like OctaneGuy would have...
(though, when I get my Octane gel, it might transform me into a different machine...)
I have to agree and that's the beauty of Amigo! Although it's an odd name, admitedly, we named it Amigo because we knew it would become everyone's best FRIEND for this very reason.
Although I feel it's necessary for me to point out the technical differences between a polish like Swirl or Finish and Amigo, Amigo is my personal style too! (and the beer part is my style too!) I'm with you BlimeyC!
In my case, Finish fits into my polish caddy between Swirl and Amigo. And rarely leaves that spot....
But, as has been said, if, on your particular finish, you can't achieve your desired level of perfection with Swirl and the white pad, then move down to Finish. Possibly needed for blacks and some other very dark paints. As well as the glossy black plastic A-pillar covers and the windshield header on the cabrios...
__________________
I'm Paul, The car is Blimey--- BlimeyCabrio's Blog--- 2006 MCSCa w/lotsa mods and Union Jacks
Ten-time Dragon Veteran - Occasional Trackrat - Extreme Twisty Addict - Rhymers Ferry Road Fanatic
In my case, Finish fits into my polish caddy between Swirl and Amigo. And rarely leaves that spot....
But, as has been said, if, on your particular finish, you can't achieve your desired level of perfection with Swirl and the white pad, then move down to Finish. Possibly needed for blacks and some other very dark paints. As well as the glossy black plastic A-pillar covers and the windshield header on the cabrios...
On most MINIs, Finish isn't necessary if you have Swirl and a white pad. Swirl and a white pad is often all you need for your finishing step after correction or as your 1-step for cleaning up very minor imperfections (ie, on a new MINI).
However, on some MINIs and some MINI paints it is necessary to use Finish to achieve 100% clarity in your finishing step. So, I would ditto exactly what BlimeyC said above on the rest of that topic.
Finish is an optional step that's less aggressive than Swirl.
The steps would be in this order. Obviously you don't need Cut very often and in the same way you don't always need Finish or Amigo.
CUT
SWIRL
FINISH
AMIGO
EPIC
For the majority of cars I do
SWIRL
EPIC
And on black or dark paints
SWIRL
AMIGO
EPIC
What varies is pad choice and in my case, machine choice.
Richard
Quote:
Originally Posted by lotsie
I'm with Ken, hummm, I thought Finish was the last step before Epic? Or do you use it to even out/fill after Swirl, then move on to Amigo?
Mark
__________________ 5548 E. La Palma Ave., Anaheim, CA 92807 866 707 9292
Looking for Prima?? Buy Prima at ShowCarSupplies.com
11% off everyday discount code: MINI11NAM 2010 Midnight Black MCCSa
I'm with Ken, hummm, I thought Finish was the last step before Epic? Or do you use it to even out/fill after Swirl, then move on to Amigo?
Mark
Sometimes Finish is necessary but often it isn't. It really depends on what you're working on.
On soft paints (often the flat or glossy/non-metallic blacks, which also will show more of course too), you do sometimes need Finish as your last abrasive finishing step.
Often though, you do not need Finish if Swirl and the white pad already achieved your final perfection (read: 100% clarity or the lack of any micromarring/hazing left behind from your correction step).
Amigo is always an optional step prior to Epic. Although it may abrade some of your tiny remaining hazing ever so slightly, it mostly is filling and concealing what is left behind. Sometimes it is so difficult to achieve a full 100% perfection/clarity, you may want to stop at say, 96% perfection and then let Amigo finish it out by, primarily, filling and concealing.
Of course, Amigo's impact is always going to be greatest on dark colors. Sure, it fills and conceals on light colors as well but you may already "see" 100% perfection or nearly 100% perfection before an Amigo step anyway... just by the visual nature of a light colored paint. So as a rule, I don't think the extra step is worth it on a light color and yet is very worth it on a dark color.
In an attempt to summarize:
Swirl is almost always necessary on MINI paints as a paint correction polish and often serves as a finishing polish in one step.
Finish is sometimes, but not often, necessary on MINI paints as a finishing polish after Swirl (typically on black paints and sometimes other dark colors but not always).
Amigo is considered an optional, non-abrasive pre-wax step that will fill and conceal any very fine imperfections left behind from the previous steps. I suggest it for dark colors but not so much for light colors.
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(and the beer part is my style too!) I'm with you BlimeyC!
