Newbie having trouble removing Prima SWIRL residue?

[Gumby!]

Heather,

I got your Prima Package a few days ago and started DA Swirl last night on a Light Silver 06 Rover. (I am a seasoned forum reader, but a Noob to detailing)I am using a GREEN LC CCS foam pad with a G110 DA (borrowed both)...I think Green is between Orange and White. It is working fine. However, since this is the 1st time I have DA polished, I am not sure if I am doing it totally right. After polishing an area for 3-5 minutes, the Swirl is very hard to remove with a DRY Micro. If I use a quick detailer, like Last Touch by Mequiars, it comes off fine. (I have Slick, but didn't want to waste it )

In any instruction I have watched on-line, after the polish is broken down, it "looks" very easy to remove with a dry micro towel. I am wondering if I am doing something wrong. Swirl seems very, very sticky to remove. Am I breaking it down to little or too much? Or is this normal for Swirl? It seems to me that Swirl never really breaks down to a clear or very translucent color, indicating breakdown, even after 3-5 min on speed 5. I have only done the Roof and the Hood for now, and that took 3+ hours...(Lot bigger than my Mini) The results are very satifactory, but the removal of the left over Swirl residue seems too hard.

Also, I am NOT doing FINISH since SWIRL and Green pad seems to have done fine and left no hazing or micromarring and I have A.D.D. I will probably do AMIGO with a white CCS pad, even thought it is a light, bright silver...just to fill in any missed fine marks. Then EPIC witha Black or Blue CCS LC pad. I think I do have a White and Black flat LC too..should I not use the CCS style on the rest of the detail? (OG rocommends FLAT, doesn't like CCS)

Thanks for your help.

[kenchan]

it's not unusal to use QD to remove polishes and even some waxes
so it sounds like you're doing it right.

sounds like you need to join our GallonClub.

[lotsie]

Originally Posted by kenchan

it's not unusal to use QD to remove polishes and even some waxes
so it sounds like you're doing it right.

sounds like you need to join our GallonClub.

Yup, normal.

Hey Ken, when did you become the Ken of Ken's
You need to join Alliance, then you could put that in your title

Mark

[Gumby!]

Thanks for your reply...need to join the QD gallon club if thats the case...wish I would have figured out the QD thing earlier...would have saved some rubbin'...

[kenchan]

Originally Posted by lotsie

Yup, normal.

Hey Ken, when did you become the Ken of Ken's
You need to join Alliance, then you could put that in your title

Mark

no, thanks. i personally think i bring enough info to the crowd
that i shouldn't have to pay more for my offerings. although i bring
a lot of crap too. maybe that's where i need to pay.

Originally Posted by Gumby!

Thanks for your reply...need to join the QD gallon club if thats the case...wish I would have figured out the QD thing earlier...would have saved some rubbin'...

3 gallons of Prima gets you into our GallonClub.

[OctaneGuy]

If Swirl is sticky it's either because your pad is saturated and you have too much product on the paint, or you're working the polish too long and it's starting to dry on you or you're working on single stage paint. I doubt your '06 Rover is single stage (no clear coat), so the chances are that you're working the polish too long.

Have you done the test spot? I don't remember did you get my DVD yet?

Richard

[Gumby!]

Originally Posted by OctaneGuy

Have you done the test spot? I don't remember did you get my DVD yet?

Richard

I haven't done the test spot (Unless the ROOF is a test spot, in fact, this is my wife's car and it's not a Mini, so the whole vehicle is a "Test Spot" for me before I move to the Mini)...and no DVD...

I know I am NOT using too much and the pad is definately not saturated...I may be working it too long if anything. Trying to get the polish to breakdown. Maybe I don't need to see avisual change in the product to signal it is broke down? But it doesn't seem to matter if I work it short or long, the residue is hard to remove by micro only...have to rub extremely hard to remove ALL the residue....unless I use a QD, then no problem at all.

[Gumby!]

OG, one note...after I clayed and dried...the surface was very SLICK (used a QD as lube.) However, after a Swirl application and removal of residue by DRY micro only, the surface was smooth, but not SLICK at all when I rub my hands along the surface. If I use a QD to remove the residue, it is VERY SLICK again....

[OctaneGuy]

This is my DVD
http://www.showcardetailing.com/esho...sp?id=62&bc=no

It'll be your best investment next to getting your PC. Although it covers the Meguiar's system, the only change you need to make is not applying the 15 to 20 pounds of pressure as we show on the video.

re: Test Spot
Something we cover on the DVD. You do a test spot in a small section, like a 16x16 square and use the pad/chemical/tool to make that perfect. Once you've figured out how to do it, you can feel confident in doing that to the whole car. Trying to tackle a whole panel without doing a test spot is like spinning your wheels and going nowhere IMO.

re: Slick
If you're using Slick for your lube, that's the reason it's so slippery. You are applying it, the buffing it off, then reapplying it. Better to use Glide or Last Touch or any QD.

Originally Posted by Gumby!

OG, one note...after I clayed and dried...the surface was very SLICK (used a QD as lube.) However, after a Swirl application and removal of residue by DRY micro only, the surface was smooth, but not SLICK at all when I rub my hands along the surface. If I use a QD to remove the residue, it is VERY SLICK again....

[Gumby!]

Originally Posted by OctaneGuy

This is my DVD
http://www.showcardetailing.com/esho...sp?id=62&bc=no

It'll be your best investment next to getting your PC. Although it covers the Meguiar's system, the only change you need to make is not applying the 15 to 20 pounds of pressure as we show on the video.

re: Test Spot
Something we cover on the DVD. You do a test spot in a small section, like a 16x16 square and use the pad/chemical/tool to make that perfect. Once you've figured out how to do it, you can feel confident in doing that to the whole car. Trying to tackle a whole panel without doing a test spot is like spinning your wheels and going nowhere IMO.

re: Slick
If you're using Slick for your lube, that's the reason it's so slippery. You are applying it, the buffing it off, then reapplying it. Better to use Glide or Last Touch or any QD.

I am using Last Touch now to remove the residue. I will do a test area all the way as I should have. I did do a Swirl only test and it looked great, just didn't follow up with Amigo or different pads....

Thanks for the help...I am off to play Golf...then a night with the DA and a bottle of Swirl, Amigo and Epic...

Thanks again!

[OctaneGuy]

I just read your other claying thread. I need to emphasize to others--when you mix and match a polisher(g110), foam pad (ccs), and polishes, your results will vary. I believe that if you're a newbie and are trying to get the best results--you need consistency to reduce the variables working against you for success.

Using a green CCS pad (cause you're Gumby??? lol) with Swirl the issues you encounter could be very different from someone using a PC with the recommended LC orange/white pads.

Unfortunately, people tend not to realize how important a system is for achieving the best results.

Richard

Originally Posted by Gumby!

I am using Last Touch now to remove the residue. I will do a test area all the way as I should have. I did do a Swirl only test and it looked great, just didn't follow up with Amigo or different pads....

Thanks for the help...I am off to play Golf...then a night with the DA and a bottle of Swirl, Amigo and Epic...

Thanks again!

[kenchan]

Originally Posted by OctaneGuy

Unfortunately, people tend not to realize how important a system is for achieving the best results.
Richard

OG- you're just jealous gumby is out golfing.

[Detailers Paradise]

I agree with OctaneGuy in that it's likely you're using too much product. On the CCS pads it can be difficult to tell if the pad has too much product on it.

You should only need 3-6 oz of Swirl, maximum, for your entire project. You would need closer to the larger amount only if you've got a considerable amount of paint imperfections that you're going after.

I typically start with 2 lines of "spaghetti" around the outer edge of the pad (about an inch in from the edge). Then, I add about 1 line of "spaghetti" after each section (ideally, each section you work should be about 2'x2').

Depending on temperature, humidity, etc. Swirl can sometimes be a little stubborn but it shouldn't be really sticky as you're describing either. As you've already learned, if it is a little stubborn some QD will whisk it right off.


I also agree with OctaneGuy in that it's really hard to assess what might be going on when you mix and match polishing systems. In non-polishing areas of detailing it's usually fine (and sometimes great!) to mix and match systems. However, so often you will run into problems when mixing polishing systems.

I don't personally care for the CCS pads but they should still work ok for your project. Likewise, the green pad should work too. Yet the combination may have something to do with the issues you're having. That's why we have pretty specific recommendations for polishing. Things that should theoretically work together just don't always do so.

I've never used the G110 but I'm told that it is somewhat similar to the PC. Perhaps another thing to try is to turn down your speed a bit. With any diminishing abrasive, remember that the faster you run the machine, the faster the particles breakdown. Likewise, the slower you run the machine, the slower the particles breakdown. I suppose it's possible that the abrasives are breaking down so fast that they are already the size they will stay after just a couple of minutes at a fast speed. Try speed 3-4 on that particular machine.

Last, the only other thing I can think of is pressure. Are you adding any pressure? You should not add any pressure beyond the weight of the machine. This is easier to assess on the horizontal surfaces than it is on the vertical surfaces. Tick marks with a black marker on your backing plate will aid you in being able to see if your plate is still spinning or if it is getting bogged down by too much pressure. It should always spin freely.




It seems your end result came out ok anyway but those are my thoughts for you the next time around.

-Heather

[Gumby!]

Back from golf..thanks to all for your help. I am borrowing the G110 and CCS Pads or Mequiar Pads is all he had for this 1st project. When I order, I will definately follow the system LC Orange, White , Black pads you prescribe. I will try a slower speed and less product maybe..just to see how it works. I am at it tonight again with Swirl and a QD to help... Results have been great to me...I do have some scratch removals to work with tonight...I will send Pics if it works out...2 margaritas and a 4 pack after golf so not sure how much I will get done tonight. Gotta finish by Sunday for the Wife.

Thanks again for the help!

[OctaneGuy]

FWIW, I just ordered a G110 today to add to my shop tools and to do some development work.

Like Heather mentioned, I too am not a fan of the CCS pads. I use Swirl and the orange and white pads on the UDM with excellent results, so you should be able to do the same with the G110, course as I said, I really don't like those pads for serious polishing. =)

Richard

Originally Posted by Gumby!

Back from golf..thanks to all for your help. I am borrowing the G110 and CCS Pads or Mequiar Pads is all he had for this 1st project. When I order, I will definately follow the system LC Orange, White , Black pads you prescribe. I will try a slower speed and less product maybe..just to see how it works. I am at it tonight again with Swirl and a QD to help... Results have been great to me...I do have some scratch removals to work with tonight...I will send Pics if it works out...2 margaritas and a 4 pack after golf so not sure how much I will get done tonight. Gotta finish by Sunday for the Wife.

Thanks again for the help!

[Gumby!]

Originally Posted by OctaneGuy

FWIW, I just ordered a G110 today to add to my shop tools and to do some development work.

Like Heather mentioned, I too am not a fan of the CCS pads. I use Swirl and the orange and white pads on the UDM with excellent results, so you should be able to do the same with the G110, course as I said, I really don't like those pads for serious polishing. =)

Richard

Let me know what you think of the G110 and your pad recommendations for it using Swirl, Amigo and Epic for my DS/Black Top MCS. The Green CCS/G110 and Swirl wasn't really strong enough for the bigger scratching on parts of the Rover. The 8000 Mequiars Yellow pad was even a little softer with Swirl it seemed. If you think the Orange and White should do and you have the Flat ones, I need to get an order in.

And the I still need to get your OneGrip/guard and the FLEXIBLE backing plate too. Could have used it this weekend in my 14 hours of machining...

[MiniMaybee]

When I use Swirl it is always very obvious when it has broken down. It goes from opaque white to a hazy translucent white to nearly clear. If you attempt to wipe it off before it is broken down it will be very sticky and hard to remove. If I work it long enough for it to go clear and look almost as if it is flash drying, then it is easy to remove. I use the DP Platinum microfiber to remove Swirl.

[Gumby!]

Originally Posted by MiniMaybee

When I use Swirl it is always very obvious when it has broken down. It goes from opaque white to a hazy translucent white to nearly clear. If you attempt to wipe it off before it is broken down it will be very sticky and hard to remove. If I work it long enough for it to go clear and look almost as if it is flash drying, then it is easy to remove. I use the DP Platinum microfiber to remove Swirl.

Have finished the project...looking back, I may have not worked Swirl long enough. (over 2-3 minutes, but may have been too big of area, 2x3 or3x3) It would never get to a clear...it would look somewhat white hazy opaque, then it would look too dry at that point. The lower half of the vehicle had tons of scratching from improper car washing (Hard sponge and grit). I had to Makita Rotary with some 82 or 83 Mequiars polish to get that out. In any event, the Rover now looks great.

After a 4 day Dawn wash, Clay, Swirl and some polishing, Amigo, Epic, Nero, Clarity...I am done...still need to Black Wow the trim and Leatherique the leather, but will do later. Car looks tons, tons better! I learned a lot. I know for sure I am NOT in the OC detailing catagory. Maybe Anal, but not OC. I have NO desire to do this again in a week, or even tomorrow like some of you...However, I do need to do MY MINI . Reminds me, need to order some LC Flat Orange, Black and White pads...hate those CCS pads too.

Thanks to all for you help and input!