Help w/ Product Selection

[zack_S_moore]

Hey everyone.

I'm a newbie at this detailing bit. I've read a lot of posts & sites about the various products (DP/Prima, Zaino, Groit, etc) out there. In the end, it seems to come down to paint condition & how much time the owner has for upkeep. So, I'm hoping to get you guys' inputs on the proper tools & products needed for my situation:

Paint condition--
'06 Space Blue Metallic/Silver, 20K miles
Street parked
Lots of rock chips on the front bumper
Lots of swirl marks in the paint (from the previous owner)

Time commitment--
I get time to wash her once every two weeks or once a month (sad, I know), and I would only want to take time to do a major wax twice a yr. So, I would like products that will stand up to the elements and handle not being able to get a detail job in every weekend.


I'm pretty much set on DP/Prima from reading all the NAM posts, and my thoughts on what I need are as follows (please correct me where I'm wrong):

Minimal:
Wool mit
Mystique
Hydro
Waffle towel (is one enough for a complete dry?)
Wheel Armor
Skinny App pads

Can I actually get by on that little w/ my paint condition & time commitment?

Or, since there are a lot of swirl marks & I don't want to do a lot of waxing through the year, do I need to be more thorough, plus lay down a base wax coat?

Wool mit
Mystique
Waffle Towel
Swirl
Epic
Skinny App Pads
Platinum MF Buffing Cloth
Monster MF Buffing Cloth
Wheel Armor


I would like to get by on as little as possible, but I know I might need to spend a little time & attention w/ her on the first go around...


Some of the questions this brings up in my head are:

-Do I need to 'Dawn' the car before I start any of this to get rid of any cheap wax, etc that might be on the car?

-Do I need Slick? When would you use Slick, instead of Hydro?

-If you guys think I need to use Swirl, will I get any results by hand, w/o a PC?

-Will Hydro do anything for the tires, or will I need to get Nero?

-Any point in Finish or Amigo for me?


Alright, I know that's a lot to take in for a thread starter, so I appreciate everyone's patience & advice.

I wanted to get in on the 24hr DP sale, but I figured I should prob touch base w/ you all to make sure I get the right equip. Thanks.


Zack

[ScottRiqui]

If you've got a bunch of swirl marks and don't have an orbital polisher, I would seriously suggest getting one, or paying to have the paint worked on professionally once, just so that you're starting off with a swirl-free finish.

I'd get at least two of the waffle-weave towels. I usually can't dry the car completely with only one.

If you put a coat of Epic or similar synthetic sealant on the paint, you'll be amazed at how long you can maintain it by using Hydro when you dry the car. Hydro also hides the faint swirl marks that inevitably creep up over time. You can reduce the onset of swirls by using two wash buckets when you wash the car (one for soap, and one with clear water to rinse the mitt in before you go back to the soap bucket. Putting "Grit Guards" or similar devices in the bottom of the buckets can also help keep dirt in the water off of your mitt.

For the tires, I'd find a different vinyl/rubber dressing. Hydro isn't meant for tires, and I haven't found Nero to be particularly effective on tires either. I like Griot's Garage's "Vinyl and Rubber Dressing".

Slick is a quick-detailing spray, whereas Hydro is a "wax-as-you-dry" product. Both are *great*. I use Slick when there's just a light coating of dust/grime on the car. It just takes a few minutes, and using it daily or every other day means that you can put off washing the car almost indefinitely, unless you get a heavy rain or large amount of dirt on the car.

I would also recommend using a "clay bar" to remove the bonded contaminants from the paint before you start doing anything else. Wash and dry your car, and run your fingertips over the surface. That rough "speckly" feeling you'll feel is from all the little bits of tree sap, pollution, dirt, etcetera that have become bonded with the paint. Removing those with the claybar will help anything you apply on the paint to stick longer, and will enhance the gloss.

I'll let everyone else chime in, and I'll post more if anything else comes to mind.

[Darkness]

I'd get at least 3 waffle weave drying towels. I go through two each time and I use a water blade. When I tried sheeting the water off I had to use 3. No matter what you do you want to have at least 1 extra in case you drop one on the ground.

[OctaneGuy]

I got to disagree..to a point. Though there is nothing wrong with having more towels, but if you're sheeting properly you will use less towels to dry not more. I washed my MINI the day before Thanksgiving, sheeted the water off, and used the waffle weave to blot dry it. The single towel was barely even damp---until I wiped off the glass which I do after drying the paint.

Originally Posted by Darkness

I'd get at least 3 waffle weave drying towels. I go through two each time and I use a water blade. When I tried sheeting the water off I had to use 3. No matter what you do you want to have at least 1 extra in case you drop one on the ground.

[zack_S_moore]

Thanks Octane--seen a lot of your posts.

You thinking the same as Scott, that I should clay, Swirl & Epic? And, that I won't get enough of the swirl marks out by hand?


Zack

[OctaneGuy]

I set up this bundle for several NAMers--for a cost effective package providing the most bang for the buck when you aren't polishing with a PC.

http://www.showcardetailing.com/esho...New+Car+Basics

I wouldn't bother with Swirl if you don't have a PC or aren't planning to machine polish your paint. While it can be used by hand, based on what you've said, it's going to be a lot more work than you're willing to put out--personally I would never try to polish out a MINI by hand with just Swirl--I have better things to do with my time, lol.

Your best bet will be with Amigo and Hydro (Amigo is better at masking swirls than Hydro though it does require more effort to apply than Hydro)

So Clay, Amigo, Epic would be my choice.

Richard

Originally Posted by zack_S_moore

Thanks Octane--seen a lot of your posts.

You thinking the same as Scott, that I should clay, Swirl & Epic? And, that I won't get enough of the swirl marks out by hand?


Zack

[zack_S_moore]

Cool, I'll check it out.

Can I achieve anywhere near the results w/ this option, vs using a PC?


ZM

[Darkness]

Originally Posted by OctaneGuy

I got to disagree..to a point. Though there is nothing wrong with having more towels, but if you're sheeting properly you will use less towels to dry not more. I washed my MINI the day before Thanksgiving, sheeted the water off, and used the waffle weave to blot dry it. The single towel was barely even damp---until I wiped off the glass which I do after drying the paint.

The size of the towel may also play a part too. I don't like enormous towels because theres too much of a chance of brushing it on the ground with my shaky hands and picking something up, so the one's i use are only marginally bigger than my other MF towels. I use the first to dry the car, wipe out the door jams, and bot dry the wheels/tires. Then I blow out the crevices on the car and then finish up the rest with a new towel and then wipe the windows. With that process I don't see anyway to use less than two.

[zack_S_moore]

Just out of curiosity, how much are we talking for a cheap but good orbital polisher?

Thanks.

[zack_S_moore]

I see the PC's are starting at $130.

So, why the PC's & not the el cheapo's in the stores, if I'm only going to use it twice a yr?

[OctaneGuy]

The answer lies in what you expect to do out of those two sessions per year.

Are you looking to polish the paint to get the swirls out? or are you just looking for a way to wax your MINI faster?

There are only three polishers worth buying. Meguiars g110, Ultimate Detailing Machine aka UDM or the popular PC. Porter Cable Dual Action orbital polisher.

If you can't spend the money for one of these then don't waste your money on anything else.

Remember that when you buy a polisher you also need a velcro backing plate and polishing pads so either get a polisher with these parts or figure those in when you research costs.

Richard

Originally Posted by zack_S_moore

I see the PC's are starting at $130.

So, why the PC's & not the el cheapo's in the stores, if I'm only going to use it twice a yr?

[BlimeyCabrio]

Another option - get active in your local MINI club... and ask around in their forum for anyone that may already have a PC or equivalent machine that you can borrow - or who will help you do your first detail for a couple of six packs... Scott and Richard and others have pretty much said everything else that needs saying...

[zack_S_moore]

Thanks Scott.

Will the clay 'fill' up the rock chips, making them stand out more?


Zack

[zack_S_moore]

Makes sense. Thanks Dark.

[ScottRiqui]

Originally Posted by zack_S_moore

Thanks Scott.

Will the clay 'fill' up the rock chips, making them stand out more?


Zack

No, it shouldn't - you'll just be gliding the clay over the surface, not bearing down on it, so the clay shouldn't shred or shear into the rock chips. If it does, it'll wipe right out, since most of the clay out there aren't sticky.

I've tried a bunch of different brands of clay, and I keep coming back to either the Mother's or Meguiar's kits. They're also nice because you can find them at you local auto parts store.

[ScottRiqui]

Nearly the same visual results, yes. But since you'll be masking/filling in the swirls rather than actually removing them, you'll see them come back as the product wears off. If you were to actually use a polisher to remove the swirls, you might be able to go longer without maintaining the finish, but buying a good polisher and polishes does add significantly to the cost.

But, as Richard says in the description of his starter bundle, you can always add a polisher and polishes later.

[MiniMaybee]

The nice thing about the Porter Cable or others of this ilk is that they are able to limit their torque and they are a random orbit. Limited torque means there is little risk (depending on pad) of burning the paint with too much down force. Random orbit means they work very much like your hand does when polishing, never following the same path and therefore safer.
If you get a good one like OG sells, they will come with a good warranty.

[ScottRiqui]

I would like to add the Griot's Garage random orbital polisher to the list. I know a lot of people don't have anything good to say about them since they stopped selling the Porter-Cable model, but I have their polisher and have recommended it to several friends that are thrilled with it as well. It's got a slightly more-powerful motor than the most-popular Porter Cable, and I like how the handle is in the center of the Griot's polisher, rather than off to the side.

I have no problems with any of the models Richard recommended - I just want to give my opinion that there's at least one more model "worth buying".

[OctaneGuy]

good point. I omitted that by mistake not intentionally .

[zack_S_moore]

Thanks guys. Yeah, this is adding up quick.

I'd def like to go the orbital route to do the job right, but another $170+ on top of the $150+ I'm already looking at for a nice, complete wash/wax kit is a bit much right now.

I'll see about touching base w/ the local club. Also would be nice to know if there are any reputable shops in town that could do just the polishing part.


ZM

[Detailers Paradise]

I agree with much of the common thoughts already posted... unless you want to invest in a PC (or Griots), then I wouldn't bother trying to do real paint correction by hand. You can, to some degree, but I see that most people are frustrated by the time/energy it takes to abrade by hand, only to find minimal improvement in the paint.

The "cheap" types of polishers, unfortunately, are really very different mechanically. It's not just a matter of being a model that may break more quickly with lots of use, etc, like some "cheap" versions of tools. The PC and Griots (and similar brands, like Dewalt) are really the only style that are able to safely and effectively do any paint correction. So then, if you don't want to invest in a PC or similar, then I would focus on hiding and concealing, then protecting and call it done.

Assuming then that you're not going to get a PC or similar, I would first recommend using Amigo as your base filler, like Richard said. Hydro is also an excellent filler but requires more frequent use for filling. Amigo is a filler that will last significantly longer. Plus, Amigo's cleansers will benefit the age of the paint as well.

Here's what I would recommend, based on your goals of being minimal, washing 2-3 times per month, and only hand apps:

Clay and lube spray (any brand will do for clay/lube)
Wool mitt
Mystique
Waffle Towel x2
Amigo
Epic
Skinny App Pads x2
Platinum MF Buffing Cloth x2
Monster MF Buffing Cloth x1


Epic will give you much better protection and will last longer. Also, you can use it on your wheels for protection as well. Although Wheel Armour has some additional benefits for wheels over Epic, I'm trying to help you keep your list to a minimum by multi-tasking products. Epic works great as a wheel wax.

It's hard not adding Hydro... just because most love using it! However, if you wax 2-3 times per year with Epic then Hydro is just gravy.

Richard's kit (see his post above for the link) is a great way to go. Or, check out our bundles as well. (and/or our MF bundle)

Especially when you're starting out, the bundles and kits are almost always much more economical than buying ala carte.

-Heather