JB Hell...Suggestions graciously wanted

[amorican]

I love the look of my JB car, and all black cars for that matter when clean and bright. I do everything right, so I believe, wash with lambs wool, dry with GOOD microfiber, polish and wax with Prima products exclusively. Today when drying I noticed terrible holograms and light swirls on my drivers door and bonnet. I got out the PC quick and did a once over on the door with Prima Finish. It looks a lot better but is still not solid. I cannot figure why this is happening and am looking for suggestions from other JB owners on what I might be doing wrong or not doing. All I want is a flawless finish on my daily driver, is that too much to ask?!

[Picus]

When you say holograms what exactly do you mean; when I use the term holograms I generally am referring to the finish left by improper rotary use. I assume you mean an abundance of light surface swirls?

I have not used Prima Finish, however when I am having trouble finishing cleanly on soft black paint I almost always use Menzerna PO106FF or PO8RD, but I use a rotary; use a PC you will have a slightly more difficult time finishing cleanly on soft black paint.

Question; how do you think you're picking up the swirling in the first place? It sounds like you have a solid routine with good products. I know JB can be painfully soft, but even so you should be able to mitigate the damage. Which microfiber are you using to dry?

[Darkness]

You need to upgrade to a swirl remover and a maybe a different pad but like Pices mentioned, it sounds like something wrong with your process. I've had to change my ways due to poor water quaility where I moved to, because my previous process was creating accidental swrils.

What pads are you using? Do you clean your towels after every use with a micro fiber rejuvenating detergent? claybarring? the list really goes on. if you give a little more to that effect we should be able to help out.

I have a JB and know how it is. It's been a chore to keep it looking like it does.

[CR&PW&JB]

How long has it been since you last polished with the RO buffer ?

If it's been more than a few months, I'm not surprised you have a few swirls and other imperfections. No matter how good your towels are, no matter how good your wash mitt is, you are not going to totally avoid swirls and light scratches. That's why you have to buff every six months, or so.

Jet Black just shows the imperfections better (or worse, I guess) than any other color.

Now, if you have more than just a moderate number of light swirls, then you may have an equipment and/or process problem. Got pics of these holograms ?

[alicecooper]

3M Ultrafina SE (Swirl Eliminator)
http://solutions.3m.com/wps/portal/3...ources/Videos/

Definitily not cheap, but it definitly works, for me. Use microfibre wash mit instead of lambs wool for washing. Black paint has a zero tolerance for defects.

[Darkness]

^^^I thought I was the ONLY one here that used a MF mitt to wash! Love 'em! Wouldn't do it any other way

[alicecooper]

Amen!
Only cloth material that ever touches my finish is microfibre. Keeps from getting swirls in the 1st place.

[CR&PW&JB]

Me, too. But over time, you still can't keep the Swirlmonsters away.

And anyone who says they can go 6 months without ANY swirls in their paint, let me take a look at it (with my reading glasses on).

[kenchan]

? i use MF wash mitts too.

i dont get halograms on my black legacy but at the same time i haven't
polished the paint this year so not sure. all i used was Hydro and a
recent app of Epic. was about to try Amigo, but ran out of time.

if you use Hydro in the colder temps (50F and below) it has an initial
halogramic appearance that goes away after about 6-7min.

[Picus]

Originally Posted by alicecooper

3M Ultrafina SE (Swirl Eliminator)
http://solutions.3m.com/wps/portal/3...ources/Videos/

Definitily not cheap, but it definitly works, for me. Use microfibre wash mit instead of lambs wool for washing. Black paint has a zero tolerance for defects.

Agree on the Ultrafina; like 106ff, it is designed to finish clean on super soft black paints.

I do still prefer sheepskin mitts to wash, though. I find mf likes to grab on to particulates and hold it. I use mf for everything else.

[alicecooper]

Lambs wool washing mitts are made off the same material as the wool polishing pads used to remove sanding marks after wetsanding. After using a wool polishing pad, a detailer must use finer and finer polishing pads to remove the swirls and holigrams left over after using the wool pad.

I do not use the same microfibre wash mitt all season. I replace them often and pick more up as I find them on sale. Yes the wool mitt will remove dirt easier as it is coarser than microfibre, but on black, it will definitly show more swirls than a lighter color paint. I always pre-soak (foam) the car for at least 5 min before beginning to use the mitt to soften the dirt for easier removal. The microfibre will trap the dirt, but if you rinse it often, (2 buckets) and replace it often, it will keep the swirls down dramatically.

[amorican]

I do not own or use a rotary. All my polishing is done with a PC. I use DP pads and polishes, both Swirl and Finish, I use Epic wax and own and have watched (multiple times) Richard's video.
Richard, can you chime in on this one?

TJM

[kenchan]

are you using white pad with finish?

also try black pad with finish or amigo. might help...assuming that
your pads are in good condition.

[Picus]

Originally Posted by alicecooper

Lambs wool washing mitts are made off the same material as the wool polishing pads used to remove sanding marks after wetsanding. After using a wool polishing pad, a detailer must use finer and finer polishing pads to remove the swirls and holigrams left over after using the wool pad.

I do not use the same microfibre wash mitt all season. I replace them often and pick more up as I find them on sale. Yes the wool mitt will remove dirt easier as it is coarser than microfibre, but on black, it will definitly show more swirls than a lighter color paint. I always pre-soak (foam) the car for at least 5 min before beginning to use the mitt to soften the dirt for easier removal. The microfibre will trap the dirt, but if you rinse it often, (2 buckets) and replace it often, it will keep the swirls down dramatically.

We're thinking of different mitts. Lambswool mitts are the same as wool pads yes, but sheepskin are not. For example this:

http://www.pakshak.com/eurow-genuine...wash-mitt.html

is not the same stuff as this:

http://www.autogeek.net/75inholodu10.html

Not trying to argue, I just think we're thinking of different things. Cheers.

[alicecooper]

My comment was directed more towards amorican about using lambswool, as he said, "... wash with lambs wool,...".

I shouldn't have tried to put an answers together to two statements from two people, in a hurry. My fault, sorry.

To figure out someones detailing problem, with just a few sentences, is diffucult at best. Your sheepskin is definitly better than lambswool, if that "is" exactly what he is using.

Cheers!

[Picus]

Originally Posted by alicecooper

My comment was directed more towards amorican about using lambswool, as he said, "... wash with lambs wool,...".

I shouldn't have tried to put an answers together to two statements from two people, in a hurry. My fault, sorry.

To figure out someones detailing problem, with just a few sentences, is diffucult at best. Your sheepskin is definitly better than lambswool, if that "is" exactly what he is using.

Cheers!

[amorican]

I am using a sheepskin wash mitt from DP. In fact, I could use a new one...the old one is getting a little long.

[Darkness]

Ok sounds like you are doing everything correct. Maybe just a detailing accident one day that caused this.

To get the marring out I would up it to Prima Swirl on a WHITE pad. Try speed 4.5 - 5 and work it in good and buff out. If it doesn't come out up it to a Orange pad. Follow up with Finish on a white pad speed 5 - 5.5 and then do your wax/sealant.

Out of curiousity are your pads clean? or caked with old polish?

[kenchan]

or was just polishing/waxing on a windy day...outdoors.

[OctaneGuy]

Ok, I've read all the suggestions here, and again, I think it's funny that nobody has even begun to ask the right questions, yet they assume you are doing everything right, and thus the answer must lie in the polishing procedure.

As a Jet Black owner as well I do everything possible NOT to touch my paint between washes. I don't QD it. I don't use a feather duster. I don't use MF or anything else to remove the dust. Why? Because every time you touch your paint, regardless of what material you touch it with, you have the POTENTIAL to rub the dust and debris into the paint causing it to swirl.

As for the comment that holograms can only be machine instilled, I have to disagree. Poor towel quality can cause holograms as well as well as poor washing technique.

To combat the swirls, take a look at the entire process of how you touch your paint.

Take advantage of products with fillers as much as possible--frequent use of Hydro and Amigo are great complements to Jet Black.

When polishing with the PC, I use Swirl and the Orange pad. Some people might think it's too aggressive, but I've found it to be the perfect combo when working in MINI paint. I don't use Finish.

I will do Orange Pad and Swirl, then White Pad with Amigo, then Black Pad with Epic.

If your finish is flawless here or nearly flawless, then when will be the next time you touch your paint? I'd say in about a week for your next car wash.

So how will you wash this flawless finish??

Two bucket method or three buckets, clean lambswool (I also disagree about the notion that lambswool mitts are too rough because they are the same pads as used when buffing out sanding marks.), proper soap to water ratio, (I like to use warm water for washing if possible to help loosen the debris). Also have a sopping wet mitt on the paint. Don't rub it. Work on a small section, and if the sopping wet mitt isn't sopping anymore, then clean it off, and soap it up again until its puffy and full of soap, and reapply. Always make sure the mitt is completely clean and free of any debris. Mystique really does a great job at keeping your paint look great, so use it if you can. Care for your mitts. Don't throw them on the lawn or the ground to dry. Wash them of soap water after every car wash, and they will remain new for a long time.

Rinse the soap off using the water sheeting method. With no nozzle, and just low to medium flow, let the water sheet off each panel--starting from the top. Done properly, you will have a few drops of water left. Blot dry those. Once again, like I said before, "How are you touching your paint?". Blot dry with the clean waffle weave microfiber or an Absorber towel.

This system works great both in terms of logic and in practice. Minimize when and how you touch your Jet Black paint. And when you do touch it, keep the surface liberally lubricated and don't rub against it.

Richard

Originally Posted by amorican

I love the look of my JB car, and all black cars for that matter when clean and bright. I do everything right, so I believe, wash with lambs wool, dry with GOOD microfiber, polish and wax with Prima products exclusively. Today when drying I noticed terrible holograms and light swirls on my drivers door and bonnet. I got out the PC quick and did a once over on the door with Prima Finish. It looks a lot better but is still not solid. I cannot figure why this is happening and am looking for suggestions from other JB owners on what I might be doing wrong or not doing. All I want is a flawless finish on my daily driver, is that too much to ask?!

[vargasgal]

Originally Posted by OctaneGuy

Blot dry with the clean waffle weave microfiber or an Absorber towel.

I am not the only blotter! My husband just shook his head when he saw me dabbing at the car with my Absorber.

I generally throw the Absorber across the horizontal areas, let it lay there and absorb, then pick it up...no dragging! I then blot off any remaining water. The sides of the car get the ocassional blot here and there since they water pretty much runs off the vertical surfaces.

It seems to work pretty well. I am not totally swirl free, but not too bad after two and a half years of washes. I will probably take her for a pro detail in the spring.

[OctaneGuy]

Hhaha nope! Blotting is a great technique especially for scratch sensitive paints. Good job!

Originally Posted by vargasgal

I am not the only blotter! My husband just shook his head when he saw me dabbing at the car with my Absorber.

[Modnar]

Originally Posted by OctaneGuy

Two bucket method or three buckets, clean lambswool (I also disagree about the notion that lambswool mitts are too rough because they are the same pads as used when buffing out sanding marks.), proper soap to water ratio, (I like to use warm water for washing if possible to help loosen the debris). Also have a sopping wet mitt on the paint. Don't rub it. Work on a small section, and if the sopping wet mitt isn't sopping anymore, then clean it off, and soap it up again until its puffy and full of soap, and reapply. Always make sure the mitt is completely clean and free of any debris. Mystique really does a great job at keeping your paint look great, so use it if you can. Care for your mitts. Don't throw them on the lawn or the ground to dry. Wash them of soap water after every car wash, and they will remain new for a long time.

Rinse the soap off using the water sheeting method. With no nozzle, and just low to medium flow, let the water sheet off each panel--starting from the top. Done properly, you will have a few drops of water left. Blot dry those. Once again, like I said before, "How are you touching your paint?". Blot dry with the clean waffle weave microfiber or an Absorber towel.

Are there different qualities of lambswool mitts? Namely, will I be kicking myself in the behindular areas because I got the $5 Wally World mitt vs the $13 DP one?

Is Meguiar's Gold Class an acceptable car wash soap? I've still got a bottle left from picking up one of their gift sets at post-Christmas deep discount from the Target.

I'm assuming that if one is going to Hydro one's car then blotting is not an option for drying?

[Picus]

Originally Posted by OctaneGuy

Ok, I've read all the suggestions here, and again, I think it's funny that nobody has even begun to ask the right questions, yet they assume you are doing everything right, and thus the answer must lie in the polishing procedure.

Question; how do you think you're picking up the swirling in the first place? It sounds like you have a solid routine with good products. I know JB can be painfully soft, but even so you should be able to mitigate the damage. Which microfiber are you using to dry?

[vargasgal]

Originally Posted by Modnar

Are there different qualities of lambswool mitts? Namely, will I be kicking myself in the behindular areas because I got the $5 Wally World mitt vs the $13 DP one?

I was wondering about this too...I think I have the same Wally World mitt. It is really soft and seems to keep fluffy during the wash. It also seems to be better about not holding onto dirt like my microfiber mitt did.