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Would I see any benefit of waxing first with 2 coats of Epic and then topping that off with 1 coat of say maguires gold class or some similar paste wax?
__________________ 07 MC LB/W Bonnet Stripes, Comfort Access, Fog Lights, Cold Weather, Premium, HiFi, Rear Spoiler, Bel STI Driver RD, Dual Laser Interceptor LIDAR Jammer
I'm confused here. I thought that it wasn't good to layer synthetic waxes with carnuaba waxes....? Is that the case? I remember a month or two ago when I layered a carnuaba wax with ICE and it didn't turn out quite right. It seemed hard to get the finish to look clean. Since then I've gone to Prima. Which waxes are ok to layer on top of Epic?
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You can put carnauba on top of a synthetic...just not the other way around. Synthetics last longer than carnaubas so if you put the carnaube on first, the whole thing will only last as long as the carnauba...which for most is only a month or so. If you put the carnauba over the synthetic, the carnauba will still fade after a month or so but the synthetic will still be there protecting the finish.
the whole thing will only last as long as the carnauba...which for most is only a month or so.
Thats not true of all carnaubas and varies by your environment. For example, Malms lasts a pretty long time, from experience 4 - 6 months is common. I would also question "a month" for most. Maybe for some cheaper brands found at local auto stores but not, for example, Sourveign that I used on the MINI over Klasse. A carnauba will add a deeper gloss to the darker colors that a synthetic lacks.
Correct about the synthetic still being there. Someone posted about this several months ago testing layering over the winter months.
So if you have Epic as a base, then a carnuaba, you can't Hydro after that?
Dunno. Can't speak to Prima products because I dont use them
However, it makes sense that you can't. However, they sell lots of carnauba based spray detailers today that do the same fundamental thing. Layer the carnauba then detail with the carnauba based detaiing spray. Here is an example.
I'm torn here. I love the long-lasting aspect of synthetics, but I'm going back to school in a few weeks and i know that in the winter my parents will run their cars through the local washes, so carnuaba would be toast in that respect.
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05 JB MCSc - Alta V2 15% pulley l Alta CAI l TCSportline exhaust l NGK Irridium colder plugs l M7 Ultimate Grills l LvS b/o headlamp rings
"IMALIMY"
90/10 all the way, That's the spirit! I hate airconditioning. Period.
Chows - The melting point of a pure Carnauba wax is about 180 deg F. Mix in some extenders, emulsifiers, alcohol and cleaners and you have dropped that melting point down to somewhere less than 130 deg F. Some high-end Carnauba waxes even require you to melt it in your hand and then apply.
Guess how hot your paint gets during the summer if it is a dark color. Hot enough to melt Carnauba wax. So on it's own your Malms may last up to 4 months simply because it does not use a lot of VOC's to put the Carnauba into suspension. But park in the sun and it will be gone in less than a month. Not knocking Malms or any other Carnauba-based wax, just pointing out the inherent limitations of nature.
Agreed - and it's not rocket science, wax a car with pretty much any carnauba and keep an eye on it over the course of a month. All the justifications and science and whatever aside, all you have to do is observe a car waxed with carnauba over time and see exactly how long it lasts. I was using Griot's, some of the best carnauba out there IMO, and it lasted 4-5 weeks tops at a shot. Synthetics, on the other hand (Epic is what I use) lasts 4-5 MONTHS in comparison.
I honestly prefer the appearance of carnauba but not at the expense of having to wax once a month or more. And on a PW car, the difference in apearance is not worth the effort for me. If I had a color that showed the depth a lot better, I *might* be game for it...but with what I have, I'm not.
Chows - The melting point of a pure Carnauba wax is about 180 deg F. .
Quote:
Originally Posted by MLWagner79
Agreed - and it's not rocket science, wax a car with pretty much any carnauba and keep an eye on it over the course of a month. All the justifications and science and whatever aside, all you have to do is observe a car waxed with carnauba over time and see exactly how long it lasts. .
I'm not refuting that it doesnt last as long. I would add that when I added Malms, it was from Oct/Nov through April ... winter.
Yes, Glasur you apply by melting in your hand. But remember not all carnaubas are identical. There is a reason, some cost $10 and others cost $600, mostly tied to the quality of the carnauba and the amount in the paste or liquid.
But clearly synthetics do last long and that is why layering a carnuaba over a synthetic gives the best of both worlds. The carnauaba gives the deeper gloss on the darker colors and when it disappears, the synthetic is still there.
All I can say is I use carnauba 100% for looks not protection. I get protection from my Klasse. The carnauba is excellent at hiding swirls & other imperfections but as many have said it wears off fairly quick. If my MINI were white, silver, or any other light metallic color I would not bother with the carnauba because it would not add any extra POP to the finish but my MINI is red so carnauba makes it look gorgeous & that amazing look is well worth taking 30 minutes & reapplying the carnauba every month or so to achieve.
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07 MC LB/W Bonnet Stripes, Comfort Access, Fog Lights, Cold Weather, Premium, HiFi, Rear Spoiler, Bel STI Driver RD, Dual Laser Interceptor LIDAR Jammer
just can't get that warmth from polymer alone.
BlooMeeni - 2004 Mini Copper, Auto A/C, HK Stereo, Leather, 5sp.
