MINI COOPER :: North American Motoring

ImagoX · #1 07-06-2007, 12:26 PM

While prepping my classic's paint for polishing yesterday, I noticed that when claying the front "wings" (fenders) my clay was turning red. It started out feeling rough, almost like I was dragging the clay across overspray or something, but it eventually got smooth. However, I've never seen the clay pull off pigment like that. The bonnet did not do this. I also noticed that the clay seems to have left behind actual scratches in the wings' paint - I clayed in a straight line, front-to-back, and now I can see some really fine linear marring in that direction that I'm pretty sure wasn;t there before I started. Hmmmmmm...

I'll do the doors when I get home, but I wonder about using Swirl on such delicate paint... I'll start with the default PC white screw-on pad, which Heather tells me is finer than the orange velcrro-backed pad, and I'll DEFINITELY do a test patch first before I start doing the whole car. I've got moderate swirling and even some hazing going on - looks like the previous owner washed the car with a loofa or maybe a 3M scouring pad or something... gah!.

Crashton · #2 07-06-2007, 12:45 PM

That's because it's pulling off the dead oxidized paint. From the pictures you've posted of your new Mini it looks like there is a fair amount of orange peel. Maybe that is what you are pulling off with the clay. Whatever you do next, don't be too aggressive. You don't know how much paint is on that car.

ImagoX · #3 07-06-2007, 12:47 PM

Quote:

You don't know how much paint is on that car...

This is VERY true... I was wondering if it was oxidized pigment - I know that red is famous for this if not properly waxed. I'm glad that I'm getitng to this sooner rather than later.

Crashton · #4 07-06-2007, 12:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ImagoX

This is VERY true... I was wondering if it was oxidized pigment - I know that red is famous for this if not properly waxed. I'm glad that I'm getitng to this sooner rather than later.

Most definitely it is oxidized pigment. Like you said red is bad for that. You might want to call Ted & get his opinion before you hit the paint too aggressively. PM me if you need his number.

**BlimeyCabrio** · #5 07-06-2007, 01:00 PM

Yeah - if you're pulling pigment then you either have (a) single stage paint or (b) color coat overspray over your clear coat. I'm betting it's single stage given the age.

OctaneGuy loves single stage and has a lot of experience making it look great... you may want to see what he has for pointers also...

ImagoX · #6 07-06-2007, 01:01 PM

It only seems bad on the wings - I did a test spot in the door and it seemed to not have that issue. I'll be sure to do a test spot on the trouble area first, then a SECOND test spot on the bonnet/doors. I have to polish the left-side wing by hand anyway, since I have a bit of bubbling going on there and I don't want to hit it with anyhting too agressive.

**BlimeyCabrio** · #7 07-06-2007, 01:06 PM

I wonder if any part of the car is a re-spray... maybe some original paint and some not?

I know many, many moons ago (in the 80's) I polished out BY HAND all of my family's 60's and 70's cars with single stage paint - felt like I was taking off POUNDS of oxidized pigment at the time - but they looked AWESOME when I was done...

CHKMINI · #8 07-06-2007, 01:16 PM

Matt, I'm almost positive from looking at the car the other day that it has been repainted with single stage paint. If that is the case you will naturally have more oxidation on flat surfaces that absorb more weather and sunlight...thus the doors and quarters won't be as bad. I'll swing by tomorrow and look at it if you want me to.

ImagoX · #9 07-06-2007, 01:16 PM

I'm sure they re-painted SOMETHING, although I think the car DID start out red (the color wraps smoothly all inside the interior and the engine bay). I keep finding little things though, like a zip-tie in the engine bay with red paint on it, or some overspray in the wheel wells. I know that the car was restored in the UK (there's a welded patch in the floor behind the right-side seat) and so they must have done a bit of touch-up... I'm not sure if they repainted anything on the top side though, but they easily could have.

Lucky for me, I've watched Richard's DVD, so I know that polishing the single-stage paint to a mirror sheen is definitely possible!

I can't wait to get some Epic on there, though....

CHKMINI - we'll be in Dayton tomorrow visiting Jana (a fellow NAMer) otherwise I'd definitely take you up on that - your expert eye is always a huge help!

Crashton · #10 07-06-2007, 01:19 PM

My best guess is that there most likely has been a rust repair on the wings. Hence the repaint. Hang in there you'll have her shining like like a gem in no time.

MLPearson79 · #11 07-06-2007, 02:15 PM

Just a random question, nothing that's a suggestion, I'm just curious...

Do people clear-coat cars that are single-stage painted that they're restoring? Like if that were me, I'd probably want to get the paint looking perfect, and then have it clear-sprayed.

Is that something that's normally or that can be done? I don't know anything about restoring cars but this thread made me think of it.

LynnEl · #12 07-06-2007, 02:22 PM

Maybe it's embarassed.

CHKMINI · #13 07-06-2007, 09:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MLWagner79

Just a random question, nothing that's a suggestion, I'm just curious...

Do people clear-coat cars that are single-stage painted that they're restoring? Like if that were me, I'd probably want to get the paint looking perfect, and then have it clear-sprayed.

Is that something that's normally or that can be done? I don't know anything about restoring cars but this thread made me think of it.

No you do not clearcoat over single stage paint. Clearcoat is used as the second application in a basecoat/clearcoat paint formula. The basecoat is formulated to either be dry before clearcoat is applied (it's dull and almost a flat paint finish prior to clearcoat) or as a wet on wet formulation as in Dupont's Elite series of paint. While most spray a basecoat clearcoat formula with a dry basecoat, the new wet on wet formulations create a more durable
finish with a very deep appearance. It's also much more difficult to spray properly.

ImagoX · #14 07-06-2007, 08:07 PM

Man... the clay turned BRIGHT red when I did the Old English White ROOF! Oxidation or overspray? If it was overspray, it was so minimal that my eye could not see it, but it was definitely pulling something nasty off the paint - it was rough for several passes then finally smoothed down to a glossy, effortless glide.

it came out really well, though... This is after claying then a session with Swirl on the porter cable. My pad turned red as well while polishing. Wow...

Jeremy1026 · #15 07-06-2007, 08:20 PM

Good Golly!! That looks great Matt

ImagoX · #16 07-06-2007, 08:26 PM

Thanks! I was plesently surprised as well. With an older car you sort of take a "well... I'll do what I can" attitude, but thanks to Heather and Richard, and everyone else on these forums that's given me advice over the past year (literally too many people to mention by name), I actually feel like I made a huge differnece in the condition of the bodywork. Thanks guys!!!

One thing I have learned though is that I could NEVER polish other people's cars for a living like OctaneGuy... After doing so much work, having to watch the car driven away be someone else would drive me batty.

**BlimeyCabrio** · #17 07-06-2007, 08:42 PM

Gorgeous. Just gorgeous.

And my money is on overspray... if they used a production guy, it atomizes the paint so fine it's just mist anyway. And just a little mist spread over a large area would redden your clay, but wouldn't even look like much of a tint on the white top...

Very likely what you were getting off other areas with the clay, too.

kenchan · #18 07-06-2007, 09:22 PM

that red on the clay could just be some over spray...

MLPearson79 · #19 07-06-2007, 09:28 PM

Thanks for the explanation, CHKMINI. So there's nothing you could do to better "seal up" (for lack of a better term) a single-stage paint job...you'd have to just repaint, I guess?

CHKMINI · #20 07-07-2007, 01:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MLWagner79

Thanks for the explanation, CHKMINI. So there's nothing you could do to better "seal up" (for lack of a better term) a single-stage paint job...you'd have to just repaint, I guess?

Matt (IMAGOX) is sealing this paint up with the paint restoration he's doing...but as far as spraying a sealer (so to speak) on single stage it's best just to "knock it down" and respray it.

slvrmni03 · #21 07-06-2007, 09:43 PM

Olde English White? Mine has always been brass colored.

Seriously though, the car looks awesome! Detail mine please!

cadfael_tex · #22 07-06-2007, 10:28 PM

I think the single stage pain might be part of it and that oxidation is probably part of the equation as well. I remember my '66 Mustang (red also) left a lot of red when I tried to was it. It wasn't terrible oxidized (especially for a then 20 year old car) but my towels were always red. No expert here but my guess based on my failing memory.

As far as protection goes, wouldn't 2-3 layers of Epic and regular Hydro be a good starting point?

Last but not least - looks great, makes me want to go out and get one ;)

Tony

cadfael_tex · #23 07-06-2007, 10:31 PM

Sorry, just read where you said it didn't turn read until the white roof. vote goes to overspay. oops.

MiniMaybee · #24 07-06-2007, 11:22 PM

ImagoX - That looks great!

The photos are only after clay and Swirl? I hope you show us more pictures after you do the Epic. I can't hardly wait for the money-shots.

Such a nice looking Mini, I can see why you picked her up.

BTW, I think they used lacquer coats on single stage paint to provide depth and gloss.

nixjosh2 · #25 07-07-2007, 09:24 AM

Very very Jealous, beautiful job on that pretty Mini