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As I post replies regarding this topic in thread after thread, I'm realizing that it would probably be more useful to just start a new thread to help clarify this confusing topic.
Prima Epic has a drying time of 35-45 minutes in most situations (60-90 minutes if the temps are below ~60 degrees or if it's super humid).
Prima Epic has a cure time of 24 hours in most situations.
So what's the difference??
Drying time: This is the time between wax application and wax removal (aka buffing off the wax). In other words, this is the time you need to wait before you buff off your wax.
Cure time: This is the time AFTER wax removal/buffing off. You should wait for the wax to cure before subjecting it to any detergents. In other words, you simply want to avoid washing your car during the curing time. If you do, it's not a complete loss... just a decrease in the durability of the wax.
Most synthetic waxes* require this 24-hour cure time in order to achieve maximum durability.*
An exception to this is if you use an accelerator (Zaino's ZFX is a curetimeaccelerator, for example).
*Including Prima Epic, Klasse AIO, Klasse SG, Zaino, etc
Long ago, people started misnaming the drying time as curing time. This is what created this confusion. Now the terms are erroneously used interchangably. We (along with Zaino and others) are trying to straighten the terminology back out again so people understand the difference and the importance of each type of time.
Please fire away if you have questions about this so we can get everyone to understand the difference and start using the correct terminology. Correct terminology, as well as consistent terminology will help us all communicate better.
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I like your thinking MiniMaybee!
Heather definately needs her own sub section or something.
As does Richard
__________________ Picked Up (7/20): | 07 MCS | AB/B | *Coop Power* | Premium | Sport | Convenience | SS | LSD | DSC | HK | BB Lounge Leather | Alta 3" Cat Back Exhaust | Alta CAI | Alta 19mm Rear Sway Bar |
I still think we need a Heather sticky - sort of a "Best of" or "Greatest Hits".
Quote:
Originally Posted by SEAL6
I like your thinking MiniMaybee!
Heather definately needs her own sub section or something.
As does Richard
Glad I can be helpful!
As a matter of fact, Richard and I are working together to create a few FAQ kind of sticky threads on common and basic topics. Now the two of us just need to slow down long enough to complete the task! It seems that during the peak time of craziness, it may have to wait a couple of months before we can devote ample time to it. Stay tuned though!
Heather...can you use zaino's zfx with Epic, or is Prima coimg up with an accelerator for Epic?
Technically, yes. According to a casual conversation with Sal about it,
ZFX should be compatible with Epic. However, we haven't had a chance yet to test it ourselves.
I doubt we will do a Prima accelerator. Although I know some people would like the idea of this, we like to try to keep things simple unless absolutely necessary. Adding an accelerator to Epic, IMO, would just make most people feel like they have to start mixing chemicals for best results, etc.
Adding an accelerator to Epic would do 2 things:
1) Allow you to layer Epic right away as opposed to waiting 24 hours, should you wish to do this (although it doesn't really add anything to do so- see below).
2) Allow you to use a detergent within the initial 24 hours.
However, because you already get incredible protection & gloss from just 1 application of Epic (as opposed to the layering technique with Zaino) and thus it isn't necessary to layer Epic, then reason #1 above is a moot point. In fact, we recommend only one layer/application of Epicunless you want to do a second application just to make sure you didn't miss a spot the first time. It doesn't hurt to layer Epic but it isn't necessary and adds very little. It's very durable without layering. (for those who layer simply because they enjoy rubbing on their paint endlessly for hours... just use Slick over and over again instead of layering )
So that only leaves you with reason #2, which is essentially the ability to wash your car within 24 hours of applying Epic. To that I ask, is it really worth adding an accelerator to Epic? To each his own no doubt, but I personally don't see a worthwhile advantage.
In summary, it would feel like we were just adding a gimick to Epic primarily for our own benefit instead of yours.
By the way, a downside to an accelerator is that once you mix it with your wax, you have to use it soon. If you don't use it right away, you have to throw it away... a potential for wasting product.
See what I mean? You never know, but I doubt we will do an accelerator for Epic.
-Heather
PS- It should be noted that Zaino's ZFX, although primarily a cure accelerator, also claims to add other benefits as well. It's not just a cure accelerator.
When you say cure time relating to washing with detergents I get that but how does that relate to layering products like Klasse AIO/SG/SG/P21S (my layering routine).
Does the Klasse AIO & SG need cure time between layers
__________________
Tact is for people who aren't witty enough to be sarcastic...
You see this is just another example of Heather being a terrible salesperson, yet an absolute goddess or should I say godsend to those that use her products! In my mind, that makes her a great marketer because she's on our side.
First she warns us not to use too much Hydro because it's wasteful and isn't necessary, though without the warning, they would sell more Hydro!
Now she's telling us that it's a downside to force the customers to use up a bottle of wax that's been cured with an accelerator!
I'm just teasing ya Heather of course. Good stuff.
Richard
Quote:
Originally Posted by Detailers Paradise
By the way, a downside to an accelerator is that once you mix it with your wax, you have to use it soon. If you don't use it right away, you have to throw it away... a potential for wasting product.
See what I mean? You never know, but I doubt we will do an accelerator for Epic.
-Heather
PS- It should be noted that Zaino's ZFX, although primarily a cure accelerator, also claims to add other benefits as well. It's not just a cure accelerator.
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When you say cure time relating to washing with detergents I get that but how does that relate to layering products like Klasse AIO/SG/SG/P21S (my layering routine).
Does the Klasse AIO & SG need cure time between layers
An excellent question... one that actually has a very interesting answer(s).
First I'll remind that the cure time wait maximizes the durability of most synthetic waxes... doing otherwise won't be a complete loss. You'll just lose some of the durability.
Re: Cure time between Klasse AIO (All-In-One) and SG (Sealant Glaze) The technical answer:
The synthetic (acrylic, in this case) wax in AIO cures just like most synthetic waxes. It takes ~24 hours to cure.
The functional answer:
Although AIO contains a synthetic wax, if you are using AIO and SG together then really you are using AIO for its paint cleansing and filling/concealing properties and not its wax properties since SG is your wax in this situation.
So, although waiting the 24 cure time after applying AIO will allow it to cure, the question really is, does it need to cure when you're going to use SG as your wax anyway? From my perspective, no it does not.
Functionally speaking then, you do not have to wait out the cure time between AIO and SG... not because AIO doesn't have a cure time but rather because it doesn't matter in this case.
Cure time after AIO application, when used alone (as your final wax)
As I've just mentioned, AIO's wax does have a cure time. Therefore, when you use AIO by itself (in other words, without SG as your wax topper), you should wait 24 before using any detergents (aka wash your car) in order to maximize the AIO's wax durability.
Cure time between SG layers
It is important to wait the cure time between layers of SG, should you wish to layer SG... in order to maximize SG's durability.
My intention with this thread, and with most of my posts, is to provide everyone with correct information and some structure in which to apply the information so that each person can make his/her own decisions. Really, there are so many variables in each person's situation (application prefs, appearance prefs, physical limitations, colors, accessibility, etc, etc, etc), that I personally believe that this approach is most useful in the long run for each individual.
However, I hope that it feels useful. I know that sometimes a reader just wishes someone would post exactly what he/she should do or should not do so they don't have to think about it. I can certainly appreciate that! This can all be overwhelming, especially to lurking newbie readers. (in those cases, just call or email or PM me for a specific answer and I can do that too if you want! )
Anyway, in my usual long-winded way, there's your answer bamatt.
You see this is just another example of Heather being a terrible salesperson, yet an absolute goddess or should I say godsend to those that use her products! In my mind, that makes her a great marketer because she's on our side.
First she warns us not to use too much Hydro because it's wasteful and isn't necessary, though without the warning, they would sell more Hydro!
Now she's telling us that it's a downside to force the customers to use up a bottle of wax that's been cured with an accelerator!
I'm just teasing ya Heather of course. Good stuff.
Richard
I know, I know.... everyone will end up well informed but DP will go out of business in the process!!
I do have an evil side though... I mean, who can you blame for some of the massive addictions (Hydro, Slick, Clarity, etc) around here?? (well, other than Kenchan that is!) Heh-heh-heh.
Long ago, people started misnaming the drying time as curing time. This is what created this confusion. Now the terms are erroneously used interchangably. We (along with Zaino and others) are trying to straighten the terminology back out again so people understand the difference and the importance of each type of time.
That... was probably me. I'm a bit of a feeb that way.
__________________
~Matt Cook | Dublin, Ohio | '92 Classic Mini Sprite: "Fiona" + Purple Haze 2005 MCS Cabrio: "Dawn". See old MODs from "Nano" HERE - post #166 - many with How-to links!
I know, I know.... everyone will end up well informed but DP will go out of business in the process!!
-Heather
I know I'm a bit late in this thread, but your advice is a form of customer service I value. Come pay day, I expect to begin acquiring some good car care products and DP is where I'm going, not WalMart of some national chain of auto parts stores.
__________________ "History is what people remember." RC
carnauba wax is the natural counterpart of polymer sealants. natural
wax does not appear to have a 'cure' time other than the dry time,
meaning, there doesn't seem to be change in appearance or durability
after the wax has dried completely and haze removed. this is one of
the many reasons why i like using carnauba on my hobby cars because
when im done, im really done. i like that immediate glory.
My epic single coat appears to actually cure weeks later.
It might cure right away, but raelly, I see white lines on over waxed spots. I do not use any machinery so my coat probably is little thick in spots. However, it was clear and shiney, then week or so later, i see white areas.
it looks like more is curing in a strange way. It buffs shiney clean its just kinda odd how that happens. SOmeone one forums here also noted that long ago. It is not really a detractor. It wipes off instantly and happens only in 1-2 spots.
I had an interesting drying time experience this weekend waxing with a synthetic (I haven't tried Epic yet, still using up some Zaino - but I'm hoping when I'm in Denver in a week to actually stop in to DP! I at least need some Black Wow and some more Clarity.). I've always waxed in my shop, which has a dehumidifier set to 60, but who knows how accurate that is. However, it is distinctly drier than the outside air. I've always had problems getting the synthetic to dry, and for that matter polyurethane on my woodworking projects too. I'm talking hours, as in overnight. This weekend, I decided to wax out on my driveway. It was very humid, and yet the Zaino easily dried in 30 minutes. Doesn't that seem backwards? Do some resins need some moisture to set up?
"History is what people remember." RC
<---My Other British Car, '74 Austin FX4D
