Lost the back end today

[slinger688]

Originally Posted by malteseracer

Should be picking up Jeremy on Friday. I'll be tuning down the sway bar and the endlinks first thing after it gets a wash and wax. Oil will be changed within the week as well.
Overlooking the accident for the last few weeks I have come to some conclusions:
Ultimately it was my fault almost entirely (Obviously, as i have said before)
-I set up the car too stiff
-I didn't give myself time to adjust to the new rear endlinks
-I took the turn too fast
-I mis-navigated and incorrectly corrected the turn

I do not blame a lack of DSC. If I were driving anything else without DSC I should still have been able to properly take the turn, even if that meant taking it a few mph slower. I will definitely be using it more often, but it will spend a good deal of time off as well.

Was it worth not having my car for three weeks to take a turn like that? Most definitely not.
Was it worth having this accident to show that my setup and navigation of the turn was incorrect? Yes. Now I can correct this now, rather than having the same thing happen where someone could possibly be hurt.

I will be spending some time doing AutoX, driving the track (if I can ever get to one), and letting the car loose in some parking lots so I can learn it better. I will also be keeping my foot plated in turns (or at least on the accelerator) because to this day i cannot recall if i was on the brakes or gas. I'd like to say gas but I can't say that with certainty.

malteseracer,

my offer to help you with some track work still stands, but it will have to be next year.

Have a safe winter.

[malteseracer]

Originally Posted by slinger688

malteseracer,

my offer to help you with some track work still stands, but it will have to be next year.

Have a safe winter.

In the spring I will defiantly take you up on that. If I get a chance this winter I'll head to Florida or NC with some buddies and have a track day. I have quite a few guys who are as eager as I am to get their cars on the track. '09 Lancer, '05 tC, '96 3000GT (Twin turbo V6 4WD...holy **** fast) , and a few others. Should be a fun road trip if we get it going.

[slinger688]

Originally Posted by malteseracer

In the spring I will defiantly take you up on that. If I get a chance this winter I'll head to Florida or NC with some buddies and have a track day. I have quite a few guys who are as eager as I am to get their cars on the track. '09 Lancer, '05 tC, '96 3000GT (Twin turbo V6 4WD...holy **** fast) , and a few others. Should be a fun road trip if we get it going.

When I know my schedule for next year, I will pm you as soon as I know so you can plan ahead.

BTW, track driving is all about being in self control, learning the techniques and the capabilities of the yourself/car/track/conditions. The speed will come later. Don't be in too much of a hurry. Too much power can hinder your learning in the beginning.

[malteseracer]

So sorta unrelated but not really:
A guy I know was talking yesterday to me about my car. He was asking if I had ever considered going with something slower that would keep me from being a dumb ass. I told him yes (I have, but I find it better to learn to control myself than just go with a car that can't handle it). He mentioned to be that I could lose as much as $10k on trade in now because of this accident.
The only parts damaged were: Front bumper lip, radiator mounts, ac condenser, water pump, and intercooler. All were replaced with OEM new parts at a dealer body shop and none were structural parts of the car. No steering, frame, etc. The suspension wasn't even scratched under the car, nor was the oil pan or anything else.
With the above being the case I really don't see how I'd lose substantial value on the car. I bought it for $25,850 and still think it should be worth at least $23k. Am I just being naive?

[Bigshot]

Originally Posted by Robin Casady

DSC only comes on when the car is moving in a direction other than the wheels are pointing -- i.e. sliding. It wont interfere with driving unless you are drifting. I think you are over-estimating its level of interference, and over-estimating your abilities.

There was an interesting video posted here in one of the many DSC threads. It showed a skilled driver attempting an accident avoidance maneuver at 70 mph on a frozen lake. The car was not a MINI, but it had a system similar to DSC. He couldn't make it through without the electronic nanny. He could when it was turned on. The point being that even a very skilled driver can benefit from DSC. It can do things that a human driver cannot.

Turning it off for AutoX is fine because all you will hit are cones. Turning it off on the street is sort of like putting narrower tires on your car. Essentially, DSC just extends the limit of where the car can be controlled. Just because you can go beyond that limit doesn't mean you should lower it. I can think of no valid reason for turning DSC off on the street.

This is what DSC is all about. The most intrusive thing is the damned traction control.

[TheBigNewt]

I doubt you will lose $10k in value because of those damages. Keep a document of the exact repairs because a finicky buyer will be skeptical buying a car that was stacked up. You said earlier that you aren't sure if you were on the gas or the brakes. Car handling is pretty much physics and physics of pretty much momentum and traction and weight. If the back end came around the weight was probably on the front so your were on the brakes. If the car slides off the road the weight was probably on the back and your were on the gas (the turning wheels had no grip).

[basil49]

Originally Posted by Robin Casady

Turning (DSC) off for AutoX is fine because all you will hit are cones. Turning it off on the street is sort of like putting narrower tires on your car. Essentially, DSC just extends the limit of where the car can be controlled. Just because you can go beyond that limit doesn't mean you should lower it. I can think of no valid reason for turning DSC off on the street.

Yep, yep, and YEP.
And the best $50 I've spent on BASIL was to attend an all-Saturday BMW "car control clinic" here in Chicago ...

[scottab36]

Look into the SCCA sponsered Advanced Driving Skills School (ADSS). I full days driving class with your MINI that will teach you loads about driving your MINI. I took the course at Loudon, NH in June for $85.00. It's worth every penny. At 45 I drive my MINI most days like it owes me money. Anyone can benefit from this class; any age from from 18 to +70.

Also with the extra large swaybar looking better tires. If you are running the 17" wheel look into plus-sizing the factory tires from 205/45/17 to 215/45/17. That will give you an extra 40mm of tire rubber on the road (10mm per tire).

The way you described your incident, you probably only had one tire making useful contact with the road. Once you started to brake in the turn that magically (through physics) disappears. It cannot be said enough, "never brake in a corner".

Glad your okay to motor another day. Good luck with the repairs.

If anyone can pass on the ADSS information for the Long Island, NY area please do so.

[Robin Casady]

Originally Posted by scottab36

Look into the SCCA sponsered Advanced Driving Skills School (ADSS). I full days driving class with your MINI that will teach you loads about driving your MINI. I took the course at Loudon, NH in June for $85.00. It's worth every penny.

How do you find out about this. The only thing I know about in Monterey, CA is the Skip Barber one day skid-pad class for $999.

[scottab36]

Originally Posted by Robin Casady

How do you find out about this. The only thing I know about in Monterey, CA is the Skip Barber one day skid-pad class for $999.

Here is the link to the site. http://www.whitemtn-bmwclub.org/learning.html There curriculum is here and the schedule should be on here too. They offer two classes. ADDS and a High Performance Driving School.

I found out about it through www.massmotoring.net. You will do some serious skid pad driving in the ADDS and I will say, I went through a bit of tire rubber. It is still worth every penny.

[slinger688]

Look into ADSS at the bmwcca.org chapter near home. Lots of events scheduled there.

[Crashton]

A BMW street survival course would be a good place to start. They can help with ADHD. Once you do that successfully move on to the more challenging schools & venues.

[slinger688]

Crashton,

Yes the BMW/Tirerack street survival course will help but that is for teens (I forget the upper/lower age limit). It is quite good according to my friends who have sent teens to the course and also requires the at least one parent to be there.

In malteracer's case that is why we are suggesting car control clinic.

[Crashton]

I have no idea of the OP's age. I thought he was a young one. One has to start somewhere that's why I suggested the street survival course, from what I've heard it is a good one.

I agree car control is very important as is knowing how to read road conditions.

[slinger688]

Originally Posted by Crashton

I have no idea of the OP's age. I thought he was a young one. One has to start somewhere that's why I suggested the street survival course, from what I've heard it is a good one.

I agree car control is very important as is knowing how to read road conditions.

I do not know his age but he is younger.

He took responsibility for the crash which is the reason why I volunteered to help him as well.

[Robin Casady]

Originally Posted by slinger688

Crashton,

Yes the BMW/Tirerack street survival course will help but that is for teens (I forget the upper/lower age limit).

Originally Posted by malteseracer

I'm 18. I work full time to pay for gas, insurance, and food as it is while I go to school. I wish I had money to fix stuff.

Looks like he qualifies for the street survival course.

The closest car control clinic to me is up at Infineon Raceway on the 10th. Won't be able to make to that, unfortunately. Don't see anything scheduled for Laguna Seca.