Stock MCS exhaust burns leg - photo

[litabelle]

1. Findude never said it happened to the same person more than once. I assumed it happened to three different people - hence the idea it might be a design issue.

2. When opening the boot, most people stand dead center to the car. Right where they put the handle. Right where the MCS has the exhaust. Since the back lifts up on the hardtop, I would imagine that someone would lean into the car (meaning get close) to unload. On most other cars, the exhaust is off to one side or the other. I can easily see where someone who is not expecting it get inadvertantly burned. We can't even say that the MINI is not "most other cars". The MC exhaust is on one side. Why couldn't the dual exhaust have been split to either side like a lot of others?

Yes, caution is always called for, but there have been three people who have gotten hurt on this particular car. It's just not right to make fun of Findude when s/he's being concerned for others.

[OmToast]

It's... a hot exhaust pipe! Have we completely lost our minds? It isn't going to kill or maim us. It isn't going to launch us through a window and end our lives. If we flirt with it, we will burn ourselves a bit. And we will heal.

Nothing to remain but the psychological trauma

[ImagoX]

I actually wonder of that may be SAFER, since it's so visible... The stock tips LOOK like they are beneath the curve of the bumper, but obviously, they're not, hence the burns on multiple people.

Of course, mothing's more visible than a completely exposed motorcycle pipe, and I think EVERYONE that's ridden long enough has been burnt by one at least once...

[rhawth99]

When driving, standing at idle, and parking the vehicle, take care to avoid contact between the hot exhaust system and flammable materials, e.g. hay, grass, leaves, etc. Such contact could lead to a fire resulting in serious personal injury and property damage.

Actually, the above quote from the manual doesn't warn you not to touch or put your body parts in contact with the hot exhaust system, it tells you not to place flammable materials in contact with the exhaust.
Seriously, it is all a tempest in a teapot. Sorry to hear your son and two others got burned on the exhaust tips. I never would have thought about the chance of coming in contact with the exhaust tips while reaching into the boot.

[Gromit801]

Originally Posted by rhawth99

Actually, the above quote from the manual doesn't warn you not to touch or put your body parts in contact with the hot exhaust system, it tells you not to place flammable materials in contact with the exhaust.
Seriously, it is all a tempest in a teapot. Sorry to hear your son and two others got burned on the exhaust tips. I never would have thought about the chance of coming in contact with the exhaust tips while reaching into the boot.

You mean skin is NOT a flammable material?

[SB]

I can see it now. This will become the new form of tattoos. You could be the envy of the crowd. Sitting there in your shorts showing off your Borla, Milltek or whatever you have.

Sorry to hear about those that got burned.

[Odas Koger]

Sorry that anyone gets hurt! I, too, leaned against the tailpipes while reaching far inside the boot and, sure enough, have a crescent-branded left shin to prove that I associate with a MCS. (This was not a bad burn for me, however. It could have been worse--and I would have been much more upset if it had been my wife or a child.) I've been around cars all my life and I know that the tailpipes are hot, but I was surprised by getting into these. Definitely a new experience. (It also occurs to me that I haven't warned my wife about this--although she has yet to actually pry the MCS out of my hands long enough for her to experience much of anything about the car other than what it is like to motor in the first mate seat!) It would be good for you to provide feedback on this problem to MINI. Likewise for anyone else who has been really injured. For future versions, they might just take some step(s) to improve the situation, even if just to clearly warn unwary new owners.

[JackMac]

Thanks for the heads-up.

Guys, cut some slack here. It was his son who got the burn, so saying "you should know better" may not apply to a kid.

[Motor On]

Originally Posted by JackMac

Thanks for the heads-up.

Guys, cut some slack here. It was his son who got the burn, so saying "you should know better" may not apply to a kid.

I think the you should know better attidue is directed toward those who think the car needs to be reengineered so they need not pay attention to the world around them.

[chows4us]

Originally Posted by JackMac

Guys, cut some slack here. It was his son who got the burn, so saying "you should know better" may not apply to a kid.

I agree with that comment. I am sorry he got burnt. My wife did the same thing on our exhaust and she SHOULD know better (and wont read the manual). However, I do not agree that anyone should be surprised.

While I can certainly have sympathy for ANYONE hurt for any reason. Its not a design flaw. Its human error.

[Gromit801]

Can't count the number of times I got burned as a kid. It's not design flaws, it's a learning experience!

[chows4us]

Originally Posted by Gromit801

Can't count the number of times I got burned as a kid. It's not design flaws, it's a learning experience!

Good point. I got a wood burning stove. I KNOW its hot. Do I still burn myself opening the door? Of course sometimes. DUH. AND I know its hot. Design flaw? Nope. Its made that way.

[litabelle]

O. M. G.

I don't need a manual to tell me to avoid something something that is hot. However, that was never the point of this thread.

I wish some people could read things thoroughly and maybe empathize a little.

[chows4us]

Originally Posted by litabelle

I don't need a manual to tell me to avoid something something that is hot. However, that was never the point of this thread.

But it WAS the point of the thread. If one is shocked by the fact pipes are hot ...

Originally Posted by litabelle

I wish some people could read things thoroughly and maybe empathize a little.

One cannot empathize unless it has happened to you. Since it hasn't happened to me, I cannot empathatize.

Assuming your pointing at me, I wrote:

While I can certainly have sympathy for ANYONE hurt for any reason ...

[JoeCool]

Originally Posted by litabelle

O. M. G.

I don't need a manual to tell me to avoid something something that is hot. However, that was never the point of this thread.

I wish some people could read things thoroughly and maybe empathize a little.

I can certainly sympathize with the parents of a child who was hurt. I can also sympathize with the posters who believe that these "issues" lead to car manufacturers overreacting with things like airbag warnings on sun visors that cannot be removed, traction control devices that cannot be turned off, idiot lights that won't go out and chimes that won't stop chiming.

I think the hot exhaust issue is something for which the aftermarket may have a solution. I noticed that my JCW exhaust doesn't get so hot that I burn myself on the pipes. The tips are just welded onto a smaller exhaust pipe. And didn't Borla market tips that were like radiators to aid in the extraction of gasses? Maybe it's time to shop around for some weld on tips that act as exhaust shrouds...

[ImagoX]

Years ago, my grandpa had a car with a exposed radiator fan. I remmeber vividly seeing that huge, spinning thing when he'd would work on his car in the summertime. Didn't have a warning sticker, and I never read the manual - I was a kid. I have no idea what lengths they went to to WARN people about "not touching the spinning fan, lest your fingers go flying", but, hey, it was "common sense" to not touch one, right? Grandpa was never hurt - guess he was smarter than the average bear.

Funny thing, though... All the cars I've seen lately (as in, the last 20 years or so) now generally encase that fan in plastic, or at the least cover the top with a shroud. Why? Who knows? Maybe because it's safer?

Nah. Can't be. Why "reengineer" a car simply to pander to the mouth-breathers that are either too stupid or too clumsy to avoid something so obvious? Must be so they could add on that extra few bucks to the sticker price. DAMN these idiots with their need for unnecessary crap like seat belts and insulated wiring and a thousand curses on the radiator fan morons for driving my costs up! I say let people occasionally fall into that sucker! It would be a great learning experience, after all! Great idea!

Designers must always remember that "form FOLLOWS function" and I dearly, DEARLY hope that safety is the top of the list for automotive engineers... seeing what comes out sometimes, I wonder. If even one person could be spared getting branded by a simple VOLUNTARY (meaning: you don't have to do it if you don't want to, in case you don't get the meaning of the word) recall, then, hey, why not?

If anyone that's beeen affected by this petitions Mini for a change, let me know and I'll sign it, even though I will (probably never) be affected by this.

[chows4us]

Originally Posted by ImagoX

Years ago, my grandpa had a car with a exposed radiator fan. I remmeber vividly seeing that huge, spinning thing when he'd would work on his car in the summertime .

Hmm, I didn't have to watch my grandpa work around the metal fan. My first cars HAD metal fans. Then cars went to plastic. Why? Not for safety but for weight. Then shrouds came. Good idea. Now take a look at your engine bay. Can you even see the fan if you have to fix it. Oh yeah, they did real great making it easy to work on these cars ... so the whiners can complain about the high cost of repairs

As our esteemed OM has said, how can you possibly compare fingers getting chopped of with a first degree burn?

I sympathize that a child is hurt (who wouldn't?). I won't for an adult who should read the manual an be warned. In fact, I can't imagine anyone not knowing enuff to not touch exhaust pipes that are hot. It is beyond me.

As to the boot access thing. I guess MINI made a decision to place the exhaust in the middle rather than the corners. Perhaps ask them?

[IanF]

Originally Posted by ImagoX

Funny thing, though... All the cars I've seen lately (as in, the last 20 years or so) now generally encase that fan in plastic, or at the least cover the top with a shroud. Why? Who knows? Maybe because it's safer?.

Nope. Shrouds were added to make the fan pull air through the radiator more efficiently. On our old Volvos, the fan (shrouded) is painted bright yellow. I imagine the yellow paint was done for safety to make it easier to see and thus avoid (after all, it is a Volvo).

[JoeCool]

Of course safety is at the top of the list for engineers, but I think that sometimes, it is simply a matter of balance. The new Mini is designed with pedestrian impacts in mind, because in a crowded Europe, this is a major concern. Not so much for rural Ohio, and I doubt that the domestic designers are really grapplig with the issue in their next car design.

Some things must be left to common sense, and if a person is too young to have any (or too forgetful to remember that hot=bad), then individual steps must be taken to ensure safety. If the issue is life threatening or commonly considered a hazard, then let the engineers worry about it.

[Monk Edsel]

To own an S, which is better: a kid not being hurt, or the bitchin' tailpipes on the cool car?

We would rather fault a child we don't know, than an inanimate object we know, and love, so well. If it was a child we did know, especially one we managed to love more than the car, then it might be different. We may not be in favor of the preservation of the current design of the beloved object at that point. At least, that is behavior I have observed in the past. I could be wrong, of course.

When I first saw the thread, I thought, "give me a break." The burn isn't going to kill anyone. And it's true, this only affects a few people. But when do a few people, turn into enough people, to bring about change? When someone you know isn't paying attention, and this happens to them? When it happens to you?

Should MINI recall the car? That would be exceptional, wouldn't it? But I don't think MINI will do that.

This post is not to say either way, what I think MINI should do. I just wanted to make an observation.

[resmini]

Most people know they shouldn't get hit by cars....yet MINI had to redesign the whole front end of the 07's to make sure pedestrians break in the right place if they get hit.

Maybe all the previous new MINI's will be recalled to have the 07 front installed?

[OmToast]

You cannot equate a superficial leg burn to getting fingers lopped off by a fan blade.

And if it's all a matter of personal preference -- in that I prefer the car I bought to the temporary discomfort of someone who brushes against my pipes -- then I say we need to COMPLETELY reengineer vehicles. Why? Because I don't so much care for kids and people who should (or will, in any event) know better, but I LOVE cats. And cats crawl up into engine bays to nap then get their little legs broken by fan belts. TO HELL WITH FAN BELTS!!!

I, personally, know of one cat who suffered such a fate (my friend adopted him and paid for his surgeries) and I know that there must be others. Probably more cats are killed or maimed by fan belts than people are burned by tail pipes. Someone, please, halt all automobile production until this issue can be addressed.

Now, I know some of you are going to say; "Tsk, Toastie! How can you compare cats to people???" To you doubting Thomases and Thomasinas I say 2 things:

1. I just genuinely prefer cats, and;

2. You CAN'T equate stupidly unrelated things like, say, serious risk of death or dismemberment and a superficial flesh wound!

I don't recall the black knight suing the maker of king arthur's sword -- and that sorry SOB got all his limbs chopped off!

[MGCMAN]

Originally Posted by OmToast

I just genuinely prefer cats

Spoken like a true feline, er, female. (As if there is a difference).

[Rawhyde]

The JCW exhaust isn't risk free either....

I haven't been burned (yet), but I have been slightly cut across my shins. I was reaching into the boot to extract a wheelchair, and brushed up against the tips...sound up with a slight cut and some blood on my legs. It wasn't a big deal, but I do watch out for those tips when I'm wearing shorts.

Rawhyde

[MSFITOY]

Jeez...I wonder if all motorcycles should be recalled:impatient Better to get an electric car just to be "safe"...