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I was wondering what kind of handling mods i should start off with first. Considering that the performance part of the mini is a pain in the ass to get through considering its a NON-S. First i was thinking of suspension and coil overs, but also sway bars. What should i go for first?
The four biggies for suspension IMO are Coilovers, Rear Sway Bar, Camber Plates and Rear Control Arms. After that in no particular order come Endlinks, Bushings, Strut Braces and a good set of wheels and tires.
Ok so if i put coil overs on first will that make it lower also?
Coilovers allow you to choose your ride height. But based on your response there I gather that perhaps you don't know a whole lot about this stuff? If that is so then I also going to guess you don't do much driving other then maybe some spirited street driving?
If I'm right on those accounts the parts I listed maybe going a little to far for your needs. I am just asking because the parts list I rattled off there is pretty extreme and will total in the $4 -$5k range. The most expensive single component being coilovers which range from $900 - $2000.
Let us know in more detail your needs and we will be better able to help.
Well dont get me wrong but i know alot about cars, but i just have never really put any attention towards the tuning world more of the Exotic cars and what not. So kind of i just dont really know alot about the handling part but most of the other parts of what their is though. But ok thanks who should i buy from if i do get some coil overs? Tein? H&R? I just dont know which one would be best
Depends on what you are looking to spend. Cross are some of the best but they are $2500. KW, Bilstien, M7 all also make good products in the 1500 - 2000 range. H&R and Megan at $1k are in the lower end but not in terms of quality. I would go with megan of the two, then again I have H&Rs arriving in days because I got an amazing deal on them.
tuner newbie here. coilovers seem too much money for stuff i wouldn't ever push on the street. maybe i'll look into a $200 19mm rear sway bar. i did drive an old M3 for a bit and enjoyed the suspension vs. my bouncy, tilting MC. oversteer in the M3 did get me in trouble a few times too many, though.
They are comparable to the H&R's (which I have) and are under $700 shipped. Also the rear sway on the Coopers is 16mm so I would bump it up to a 19-22mm from Alta (which I have). An intake setup is on the way supposedly.
Well I am currently looking to go to autocross, and also I want to go to track day events. I am looking to spend how ever much i need to when i start getting money. I am also 16 years old though to but have been dreaming of what my mini cooper could come out to look like. But i will look at some of those companies too but thanks for all the replys too you guys. If you guys want to see a video of my Mini here is my other account www.youtube.com/user/MiniCooperBenzo
There is nothing wrong with doing Auto-x or track learning days totally stock. The Mini is one of the best handling cars already. Modding it will put you into more competitive classes against more experienced drivers. Work on getting more seat time. Better tires will help more then suspension changes.
I concur with th3118. Seat time will give you the biggest bang for your buck.
I would strongly getting a precision sport-handling alignment from someone who really knows and understands what they are doing before your first autocross or track event (or even for everyday driving). Make sure you get the little alignment pin on the front strut towers removed first & get as much negative camber dialed in as you can. Needs to be equal on both sides with the driver in his seat. When I did this to my 08MC, the difference in handling from as-delivered was amazing! Next, replace your (OEM) all-season tires, especially if they are run-flats, with some good, preferably inexpensive, summer high-performance tires. Cheap is good, because if you get serious, you are going to go thru lots of them. Consider tires to be regularly-replaced commodities, (like an oil & filter change) and when replacement time comes again (and again), it won't hurt as much. Next, in my opinion would be high-performance brake pads, the sooner the better from new car delivery so you don't have to have the rotors surfaced. Stock brake pads dust horribly. I'm going to Carbotech autocross compound. I like the idea of putting a passenger's eyeballs into the windshield & am willing to tolerate the OEM level of brake dust in trade. I guess I'm sorta sick like that...
Next , in my opinion would be an adjustable shock upgrade. I like Koni yellows. Try full hard in the front, medium or soft in the back. Keep in mind the rears are much harder to adjust than the fronts- you have to remove them to adjust them.
Get lots and lots of track time.
After that, the sky's the limit with mods and you'll be able to use much more of any mod you do and be able to more quickly figure out if you are moving in the right direction with a given mod. Don't be afraid to return to what worked in the past. Keep good notes. Little things like tire pressures can make huge differences. Have fun!
Apart from the obvious driver's experience/knowledge, etc., I would upgrade the suspension in this order;
1.Larger sway bar,
2.Tires
3.Stiffer springs/coilovers(if you do in fact plan to track)
4.Control arms(you're gonna get this done if you lower your Mini via coilovers or springs)
5.Camber plates(frankly I would skip these unless you're autoX OFTEN)
Anything more and you're bordering on serious autoX/track vehicle. Ceterus paribus, Justacoopers are really only competitive in the stock class. Some of the other mods mentioned;
Strut brace: Not too many options, other than JCW IIRC, will clear the justacooper's hood.
Intake: Louder yes, performance gain questionable.
Brake pads: Sure, change them but I don't believe they should be on the top of the list
Endlinks: These tend to be noisy, making a daily driver almost unbearably irritating to be in. Then again, as you make more modifications, you're going to trade comfort for performance, there's no real way around this.
If you do intend to be a competitive auto crosser, then keep it stock. If you intend to mod because you'd like to have the most toys(definitely nothing wrong with that), then just bear in mind the comfort issue. Other than that, there's nothing stopping you except money.
Last note, your reply cannot be true;
Quote:
Originally Posted by benzoc
Well dont get me wrong but i know alot about cars, but i just have never really put any attention towards the tuning world more of the Exotic cars and what nott
simply because the basics of suspension is a universal discipline in any vehicle-albeit tuned differently for different machines. Nothing wrong with not knowing, just be honest about it.
[quote=theDoktor;2698079
Next , in my opinion would be an adjustable shock upgrade. I like Koni yellows. Try full hard in the front, medium or soft in the back. Keep in mind the rears are much harder to adjust than the fronts- you have to remove them to adjust them.
[/quote]
Why do you recommend a harder front than rear? No one else I've spoken to shares this view. Stiffening the front would induce understeer, which is undesirable(ideal would always be neutral or maybe a hint of oversteer). Unless somehow you're attempting to reduce only the front(drive side) body roll? Still, this does not seem to make sense. I am interested in the reasoning.
With an adjustable shock like the Koni Sport (yellow) it's just a matter of seconds to adjust the front shocks, so it's a matter of personal preference where your starting point is. It will take some experimenting to find out what works best for you. As an old friend described his handling test proceedure, "...keep stiffening the front until the transition from track to grass is too quick to catch. Back off on the front one step and then start stiffening the rear until you can't catch it. Back off on the rear and start over again on the front..." I happen to like starting stiff at the front based on many years of autocross experience in a variety of stock, small-engine cars.
It's too bad that nobody manufactures an adjustable front bar for the Mini to compliment the adjustable rear bars. To get really serious about making a suspension work requires lots of adjustability. Easy adjustability makes it fun. Having to dissasemble part of the car to make a simple adjustment like adjusting the rear shocks is both a lot of work and time-consuming. Something to remenber if you are renting track time.
With an adjustable shock like the Koni Sport (yellow) it's just a matter of seconds to adjust the front shocks, so it's a matter of personal preference where your starting point is. It will take some experimenting to find out what works best for you. As an old friend described his handling test proceedure, "...keep stiffening the front until the transition from track to grass is too quick to catch. Back off on the front one step and then start stiffening the rear until you can't catch it. Back off on the rear and start over again on the front..." I happen to like starting stiff at the front based on many years of autocross experience in a variety of stock, small-engine cars.
It's too bad that nobody manufactures an adjustable front bar for the Mini to compliment the adjustable rear bars. To get really serious about making a suspension work requires lots of adjustability. Easy adjustability makes it fun. Having to dissasemble part of the car to make a simple adjustment like adjusting the rear shocks is both a lot of work and time-consuming. Something to remenber if you are renting track time.
I have the M7 coilovers and both front and rear are easily adjustable since the knobs are at the bottom-there's no need to remove anything to have them adjusted. I'm not fond of anecdotal evidence, but rather actual physics. What dynamics are you attempting to change while stiffening the front more than the rear?
Ditch the runflats,
put on IE fixed camber plates,
think about springs.
Rear sway was the right mod on r53s, but I think its the wrong way to go on the R56s. I'm in the minority though.
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07 R56S
It's not that modded, it's just a freak
JCW Alcantara Wheel, Shift Boot, Ebrake boot, Whalen shift machine,
TSW springs, IE fixed plates, Carbotech pads and a whole lot of fun.
Autoxcooper.com rules!
I figure with an SCCA Divisional class title, at least one higher than top 10 finish out of 40 or so class entrants at the Nationals and more regional class championships than I care to count, I might have a bit of a clue as to what works and what doesn't, particularly in Stock class autocross competition. (DS, ES, GS and DP). Mostly in FWD cars, but also mid-engine and front engine/rear drive. For the most part what works in autocross works on the street, except for too much camber & toe-out in the front. Personally, my preference is to have it work good over look good. If you can achieve both, so much the better.
I figure with an SCCA Divisional class title, at least one higher than top 10 finish out of 40 or so class entrants at the Nationals and more regional class championships than I care to count, I might have a bit of a clue as to what works and what doesn't, particularly in Stock class autocross competition. (DS, ES, GS and DP). Mostly in FWD cars, but also mid-engine and front engine/rear drive. For the most part what works in autocross works on the street, except for too much camber & toe-out in the front. Personally, my preference is to have it work good over look good. If you can achieve both, so much the better.
Wow, I didn't get an email notification when you replied-sorry for the delayed response.
Frankly speaking, I've seen cyclists who wear world championship jerseys with poor aerodynamics and/or poor cycling form, I've seen great runners who have weak running strides, and I've also seen surgeons tie running stitches wrong but still save lives. I didn't really ask for your track record and laws of physics don't play different rules for trophy holders. What I'm asking for though, is the actual dynamics reasoning as to why you chose a stiffer front than rear. Are you more comfortable with the induced understeer? Are there different other mods that actually increase oversteer to balance out the stiffer front springs? No need to get defensive and start puffing the ol' mighty chest. I was actually interested in your response.
No offense taken. Let me explain what my first hand experiences have been and what I've observed with some other drivers who are much better than I am when competing in the somewhat rarified world of Stock Class SCCA autocross.
We are strictly limited as to the suspension modifications we can make and also typically stuck with a very limited range of adjustment available with the OEM alignment. Managing camber change is a real challenge when you can only adjust to -0.5 degree or so of camber, if at all. What we all have done, and with suprisingly good results, is to do exactly the opposite as the accepted norm with sway bar settings in the front and then modifying our driving technique to compensate for the resulting understeer. Under most (autocross competition) circumstances, this modification appears to actually reduce understeer and allow the front tires to bite better, particularly in quick transitions. I'm talking about going from a 19mm front bar to a 25mm bar, or from no front bar to a 19mm infinitely adjustable bar. It also seems to help if you can get the stiffest "legal" front springs. You can then use tire pressures and shock rebound settings to fine tune the handling. I'm not sure what the physics or engineering of this peculiar set-up is, but it seems to work more often than not, particularly on cars with a McPherson strut front suspension.
I'm quite sure there are others who have had other experiences, but it worked for me, as well as a former National champ and multiple year top 5 competitor I used to compete against, as well as a very good friend who is a former Can Am driver, factory Showroom Stock driver, and currently a top level rally driver who still does local autocross to keep his driving sharp.
Let me again remind you that, at least with the stock rear suspension on the Mini, any kind of shock adjustment is a real pain in the a_ _, particularly at the track. I prefer to minimize having to work on it whenever possible. Having external adjustments come from the factory would be a blessing for someone like me, but that isn't going to happen anytime soon and still be class legal.
Hope this helps.
Not trying to flame or anything, but if you are doing track time with a club, or being on a track in general, usually reliability is a huge deal. That means no 16 year old will be aloud track time period. In Portland, at PIR. I know for a fact you need to be 18 just to ride in the passenger seat of a car during track time. Place to place may very, but make sure you check the age requirements so you don't find out the hard way.
You are absolutely right about minors and access to any kind of track. Even for an autocross event, a minor waiver signed by a parent is required for anyone under 18 to be a passenger or participate. Personally, I stay far away from any organization who doesn't have stringent rules concerning minors.
That being said, an autocross venue is a terrific way for a young driver to be introduced to performance driving in a safe, controlled environment. Many clubs have schools for new drivers or those who want to hone their skills in a non-competitive situation. Also for the teen driver is the Street Survival program sponsored by the Tire Rack, a NAM sponsor. I'd encourage any teen to check that program out.
An autocross is also a terrific way to fine tune all those cool mods everyone loves, particularly if they are easily adjustable. Just remember, what works on a track doesn't always work on the street. Too much rear sway bar may be just right for an autocross, but can bite you big time on the road, particularly with a sudden weather change. Low & stiff looks cool & can give great performance on the track, but a speed bump can really ruin your day if you're too low or going a bit too fast.
True, well coleman you have a funny name, because thats my lastname! Lol well thanks for the post you guys
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2007 R56 Mini Cooper Mellow Yellow, Blackjack Union Side Scuttles, Hella rally lights, Black rally stripes, JCW Shift knob, JCW Front grill, and ASA AR2 V2 wheels. Tickets in counting....1
Check out my Youtube! www.youtube.com/user/MiniCooperBenzo
