'Thought I'd start out with this in the General section as it can apply to both 1st and 2nd generation Minis.

I found this great idea for a brake light on the web. It's really designed for motorcycles, but there's no reason it couldn't be used on a car:

http://www.powersportinnovations.com...chk=1&Itemid=1

If I were to try it, I'd use just the module and take advantage of the existing 3rd brake light on the Mini:

http://www.powersportinnovations.com...emart&Itemid=1

However, it's my understanding that the Mini has a CANBUS system so I'm wondering if it could be wired up to work properly. And if so, what would that wiring schematic look like. Here's the instructions for the unit:

http://www.powersportinnovations.com...l%20113009.pdf

 

http://www.gominigo.com/PULSAR.html

 

Nope. The PULSAR unit is nice, but it doesn't do what this other unit does. This other unit takes it serveral steps further:

1. Depending upon the level of the deaccelleration G forces, the rate at which this unit flashes will vary. Slow down gradually, and the unit winks slowly. Brake normally, the unit winks faster. Brake hard, the unit winks faster still. It really gets your attention. The PULSAR unit only winks at one of two set rates. It doesn't vary the winking rate with the deaccelleration rate. This extra feature really, really get's people's attention. Back in the mid 80's, there was something called the Cyberlight which worked the same way. I had one on my motorcycle, I saw a few people with it on their cars, and many police departments had them on their vehicles.

2. This unit can also be set to start winking slowly simply by deaccellerating. Meaning that during those precious few seconds between lifting your foot off the gas and applying the brake, the unit has already started flashing.

Both these features, IMHO, make it superior to the PULSAR and simliar winking brake light systems.

 

To each their own. I think that blinking brake lights are not that useful in the first place on a car. If someone misses your brake light and is going to rear-end you it matters not if your third light is blinking or not.

Not to start any kind of flame war or anytihng, I suppose that if these blinking lights were truly useful they'd be installed on all cars. Since they are not I question the effectiveness of it.

I agree that on motorcycles there is a bit of a difference. Not nearly as many indicators that there is braking going on. Plus cars tend to be unaware of motorcycles for whatever reason. I suppose its the same people who don't see cyclists on the road either.

Apologies for not noticing the difference between the pulsar and your idea. I'll just stick to what i have and if I get rear ended I'll let you know so you can do this to me:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rX7wtNOkuHo

 

IMO, a flashing light will catch the attention of a distracted driver more effectively than a solid brake light. With so many cell phone distracted drivers on the road these days, I think the flashing third brake light is a worthwhile option.

You put a lot of faith in Congress to keep up with what is effective on cars and what is not.

I'm not sure that varying the flash, based on deceleration rate, is beneficial. It needs to vary on how distracted the driver is. Even if you are stopping gently, you want to catch the corner of the eye of that person behind you who is not paying attention.

 

Robin,

Good points. Congress doesn't seem to do more than generate hot air these days. Car safety isn't on their list of to-dos.

I figure that if people miss the third brake light they're going to miss a blinking third brake light. Maybe not, but who knows.

In the end, my opinion is that people should shut up and drive and we'd all be happier for it. Unfortunately people see being in the car as a time to catch up on their calls or sending text messages these days.....

 

I'm certainly one of those people wishing for any simple mod that will keep bad drivers from overlooking my small car.


I've read all the arguments on both sides of the flashing brake light, mostly because I was looking to install the gominigo kit.

On a national level, a flashing brake light is illegal. Certain states tried to amend their code to allow the lights, but the NHTSA has said in every case that this is not acceptable. Car manufacturers have written for permission and have been shot down in every request as well.

Basically from what I researched, there isn't much solid proof that merely a flashing brake light improves safety or reaction time. Initially it seems to increase visibility, as drivers aren't expecting the light. But then there's an even longer period to process this new, unexpected stimulus. If all cars had flashing brake lights, we wouldn't have to "think" about our reaction to the light, but then no one would give the light extra notice.


Now, the system the OP is talking about (didn't actually see a video of the powersportinnovations product in action) actually makes sense. I think drivers would certainly appreciate and benefit from a *standardized* system to illustrate the degree of braking occurring. The technology is there, the benefits are likely real, but the laws are lagging behind.


More reading:
http://www-nrd.nhtsa.dot.gov/pdf/esv/esv19/05-0080-O.pdf

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automot...raking_Display


Supposedly Mercedes received a temporary exemption for their fancy brakelights, but I don't know if they actually brought any US model cars over with anything but solid brake lights:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11351634/

 

I do not mean this in a flaming, or arguementative way.

Turn signals blink, and are required by law. If they were solid amber lights, would you ever notice them?

 

As recall, the old Cyberlight brake light was legal for use on cars and motorcycles. But at the time, it wasn't cheap and was a bit on the horsey side. Also, as I recall, the inventor claimed that studies showed a reduction in rear end accidents when the light was used. That's why so many local law enforcement agencies were using them. Too bad the guy didn't have the resources to market and sell it like it should have been. (This was before the proliferation of the internet.)

So, I'm thinking that they're still technicall legal. Or at least legal if used on the third or accessory brake light. Perhaps the left and right brake lights can't be modulated, but I think the other can be. I'm checking into it.

If you've ever ridden/driven behind a vehicle with the type of variable brake light modulation I've described, you'd find that it's instantly intuitive what's happening and that you do, indeed, react faster to slow or stop you're own vehicle if you see on of those go off. It actually does work beneficially.

 

No, they are ILLEGAL on a national level and always have been. There isn't any debate about the *legality*. It is very clearly spelled out by the NHTSA. The aftermarket kits are illegal as well, especially so, because they disrupt a universal standard that brakes lights should be steady when on.

The wikipedia article I linked to references several NHTSA explanations of the law. See the attachment for a very detailed PDF outlining the NHTSA's argument. It even includes letters to states telling them they can't make laws allowing the flashing brake lights.

More specifically, the NHTSA says to allow a change to crucial safety lights on vehicles, fleet research must demonstrate that the device provides a net benefit to safety.

Also, the NHTSA doesn't want to "give away" the ability to use a flashing CHMSL because the NHTSA might come up with a better use for that signal that can be applied as a standard.

So far there is no solid data that flashing CHMSLs provide a net increase to safety.

"As noted by TMA in its comments, the only data in this area indicates no significant improvement from flashing CHMSLs (NHTSA’s large scale field study in 1981). Accordingly, NHTSA would not treat these requests as petitions for rulemaking. Instead, the requests would be treated as suggestions for research to try to gather the necessary data. The requests would be
forwarded to a public docket that will collect information describing all proposed new signal lighting ideas and systems. The docket will be available for review by NHTSA and others who may wish to plan future research based on the ideas and inventions collected in the docket. NHTSA notes that since it has already researched the merits of flashing CHMSLs, it is unlikely that the agency will research the same area again until there is some reason (such as new data in this area) to believe the 1981 study may no longer be valid."





KITT scanning lights, not allowed:
http://isearch.nhtsa.gov/files/3157o.html

Mercedes asked for blinking lights and NHTSA said no:
http://regulations.justia.com/view/12906/

NHTSA explication of requirement for brake lamps to burn steadily
http://www.regulations.gov/fdmspubli...ontentType=pdf

 

Hmmmm......well that's too bad. Leave it to the DOT and the rest of the feds to keep us in the dark ages. It took them forever to allow improvements in automobile headlights. And the DOT motorcycle helmet standards are archaic. Just two examples.

Which reminds me, apparently, flashing brake lights are legal on motorcycles.

 

I find it funny that the article says it's protection against annoying tailgaters... Especially when motorcyclist tailgate the most.

 

Arghhhh, you read nothing that I posted, huh? In that PDF, you'll see that Memphis tried to allow flashing brake lights on their police motorcycles and the NHTSA gave them the finger as well.

The flashing brake light is illegal on any type of vehicle. It's illegal aftermarket. It's illegal in all 50 states. It's illegal for car manufacturers to install. It's illegal, period.

Yeah the NHTSA seems behind on the flashing CHMSL issue, but I think they're waiting for something great to come along that really improves safety, has been tested on a fleet wide scale, and can be implemented for the masses.

Until then, a flashing brake light serves as an ambiguous signal to drivers who were already paying attention to your tail. Is he stopping? Is he stopped? Does that light mean go around him? Does that light mean he is braking hard? The flashing brake light means nothing to drivers until is has been standardized as law.

 

Despite having a blinking brake light I have had a number of people almost rear end me. The latest was a large Dodge 2500 pick up. He was sideways with all 4 locked up. I knew if I didnt do something he would hit me. At the last second traffic moved so I dropped the clutch and in a nice launch with only inches to spare I got away. Point is you are your best defense against other drivers. I like my blinking brake light but I know it cant stop them all.

 

Yep, best defense is you. That's the first thing you learn if you ride a motorcycle.

 

I'm thinking one could run one of those flashers & if stopped just tell the officer that you have an English car with Lucas brake lights.

 

I just saw the new 2012, 911 has flashing LED Lights under hard ABS breaking and was googling it online and found this thread.

My father created the Voevodsky Cyberlight in the 1970s. He changed the LAWS in California to permit our flashing tail light that proved a 60% reduction in rear end collisions over a million mile study on San Francisco Taxis.

Now, the auto companies including Air Bag Hating Lee Iacoocoo... hated safety in the 70s... they hated airbags and brake lights. Now, the FEDs waited for my Father's Patents to run out and then mandated the inferior but less annoying 3rd brake light on all cars. (Google it - My father is given credit for it despite the fact he hated the idea of a non flashing 3rd light.)

Anyway, The FEDs then mandated both air bags and 3rd tail lights despite the auto industry complaining. It's funny to see how everyone including LEE love auto safety. In the 1970, safety did NOT SELL much like the Seatbelt which was offered but didn't sell only to be mandated later by the FEDs.

It is fun to see 40+ years later that Porsche's new 2012, 911 on Motor Trend TV tonight finally showing my preferred solution - flashing ONLY under Maximum de-acceleration.

The problem with the Cyberlight (great for motorcycles) was it Flashed at a STOP and also had 6 different Flash Rates depending on your de-acceleration. A bit too complicated but thats what engineers do...

I think the Porsche idea is the perfect solution and hope it is implemented on every car and motorcycle. (I'm glad that the FEDs did not mandate all cars to have a flashing lights when completely stopped... Can you imagine Los Angeles freeways would be visible from the space station flashing like fireworks at rush hour... NO thanks.)

I am glad to see people borrowing my fathers' ideas after all these years. If someone wants to update the Wiki - go ahead... it's history is incomplete and frankly wrong with 3rd brake lights and the Flashing Brake light History that was started by Cyberlight.

And yes, it is legal to have an AMBER FLASHING BRAKE LIGHT in California and in fact some CHP even had them! We even sold some RED ones but technically they were not legal. ;-) So don't believe everything you read on Wikipedia.

 

All Chicago cops have blinking brake lights mounted to their cars, if not integrated. I find the blink really gets people's attention. I wonder if this means that they are illegal.

I always debate getting something like this or a Pulsar, but I also don't want to be annoying on account of safety...

 

I first really noticed them when at the Mini Mickey 7 last year.
When I got home I ordered one and love it.
I truly believe they do get your attention.
A drunk or someone out in seventh heaven probably won't
recognize it but for the majority I think it's an attention getter.
Besides that, I think they're pretty cool.

 

Hopefully one of them was me

It was one of my first mods.

 

You are exactly right, In 1973 I talked to Bernie whom I believe invented both the Cyberlight and Polyglycoat. I was the first Car Dealership in IL if not the country to market and Sell these products. The man was a genius inventor. Cyberlight works intuitivley and no electronics to go bad. It did have Insurance statistics that Bernie used his own money to prove the intuitive nature of the braking sytem reduced rear end collisions by approximately 75%. I use approximately because I do not specifically remember the number but it was high and may even be higher than 75%.
The laws remain grey on the legality of its use. I say that because in many states there is no law or code that specifies you can not use it. Ask a trooper if he has any law in his state that prohibits it or that he can stop you or arrest you for using it.
I would like to hear back from anyone with anything to do with the cyberlight or any intuitive light braking system...

I stand corrected
JACK Voevodsky created the 3rd brakelight "Voevodsky Cyberlight, and did not have anything to do with the Polyglycoat products. I purchased both products from the same company or distributer at the time. The actual number of of rear end collisions from field tests at the time was 60%. It was a product well ahead of its time and in my opinion from actual use the varying rate of blinking with rate of decelleration is far superior to a standard 3rd brakelight which evolved from Mr. Voevodskys invention.

 

Bob:

('Got your message.)

I can add a bit more info re the Cyberlight. First off, it did have electronics. Don't know what all it was, but I'm sure it was pretty simple given the technology of the day. There might have been a very simple processor on the printed circuit board that was inside, but at any rate, there were electronics to detect the various rates of deaccelleration and thus vary the flashing rate. And then limit how long it flashes before it goes steady of back to a slow flashing rate. The way the information on deaccelleration rate was fed into the circuitry of the electronics was simple and crude by todays standards. There was a row of mercury switches, each set a a specific angle and each tilted just a bit more than the previous. When stopping, the mercury would flow to the end of the switch and close a circuit. The harder you stopped, the more switches you'd close. As I recall, there was maybe 5 or 6 switches.

To get the very bright light when it flashed, the red (or amber) rectangular lens was actually a couple of fresnel lenses on the inside with a textured outside. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fresnel_lens) Behind each of the fresnel sections of the lens were 6 volt (not 12 volt) conventional brake light bulbs. The 6 volt bulb with 12 volts running through it would brighten quicker and be brighter overall than a 12 volt bulb. And the fresnel part of the lens was there to further focus the light and direct it back. Though crude by today's standards, it was rather effective.

Today, of course, one would use a accellerometer chip, a simple processor to control it all, and LED's for the lights. The unit could be made quite a bit smaller and more reliable as well. (Mine died so I took it apart in an effort to find an obvious problem, but the circuit board was completely encapsulated in epoxy and that precluded any sleuthing.)

There are a number of brake light options available for both cars and motorcycles that offer flashing and even variable rate flashing of the stock brake lights or accessory brake lights. But none, that I know of, tie the flashing rate to the deaccelleration rate. I'd love it if someone would do that and I'm surprised that no one has as I'm sure the original patents expired long ago.

 

Bob: ('Got your second message.)

I was rereading this thread a bit and noticed that the son of the inventor posted that the light had 6 different flashing rates. So, that means 5 or 6 mercury switches. As for making a modern version of one, it's certainly possible. And if I had the skills to design electronic circuitry, I'd do it in a heartbeat. However, I only have the skills to design everything else but the circuitry. I do know people who could do it and perhaps someday I'll do it. And with modern electronics, you could program it to do just about anything. You could have a ga-zillion different rates if you wanted to. And when stopped, you could program it to do just about anything. My vote would be for a steady on interspaced with three quick flashes and then another period of steady on. (Though if all cars were equiped with one, all that flashing might be a bit distracting.)

Another nice thing about todays electronics is that it could be user programmable. Or at the very least, one could build a single prototype and then change the programming to test different modes of operation rather than having to build a whole new PCA (printed circuit assembly) just to test a different mode of operation.

 

I run a simple flasher unit in my wife's truck 3rd brake light. when i get around to installing a 3rd on my jeep and especially when i get my mini, they will both have them. They work very well.