Hello all,

I have 30k miles on my '08 clubman and yesterday my engine light came on. Today it is still in the shop - engine being taken apart and cleaned. I'm told that it was misfiring and completely "gunked" up due to bad gas and that I should be using top tier gas. Unfortunately I wasn't told that when I drove it off the lot in '08.

Unfortunately, all of the gas stations in a 10 mile radius of my home are not *top tier*. I usually fill up at a Mobil (occasionally Hess or Irving) and when I pass a Shell (top tier) I stop.

Has anyone else run into this problem? I always put in the premium gas but I'm told it's not the octane that makes the difference.

Now - I will go out of my way for top tier gas if it keeps my mini happy!

 

Bad gas is the easy scapegoat. Sometimes it's the cause, sometimes it is not. The dealer finds it easy to blame the fuel because it is difficult to prove the negative. But the fact remains that too many instances of engine-gunking have been reported for it to be solely a fuel problem.

That said, top tier fuel really is the way to go. Additionally, I try to fuel up only in areas where the higher octane is likely to have a higher turnover rate. To my way of thinking, this minimizes the chance that the fuel has been sitting in the tank for an inordinate amount of time. Gas up in the mddle of nowhere and maybe that 91octane has been in there since the Clinton Administration. Y'know?

 

The C-4 Corvettes always had a serious problem with crap gas. It would cause fuel pump problems as well as cause the fuel gage to stick. The people on my Corvette forum always said to run a can of "Techron" every 1,000 to 1,500 miles and you will never have a problem.

I now have a 2009 JCW and I still use the Techron in it. The "Techron" does not have alcohol in it at all so you don't have to worry about upping the percentage of alcohol in the gasoline. I am now pushing 11,000 miles with narry a problem.

I get 90% of my gas at Sam's Club unless I'm out of town. Then I try to get Chevron,Texaco or Shell.

Ronnie948

 

2 years of owning the car and almost 20,000 miles later, I've always filled at a Shell station. Well, there was this one time when I stopped at a Chevron as I was running low. The MINI dealership didn't tell me anything about top-tier gas either except the MA was really specific about Premium (91 or 92) gas.

 

Did your dealer happen to elaborate as to what "their managment" considers to be: top tier fuel.

Because at the fuel depot here off the coast various tanker trucks pull up for loading from same tank source and then distribute that same fuel to 90 percent of every name brand station as well as every mom and pop gas station in this area......

And last I checked, the OM says high octane fuel yes ? and does not stipulate as to what brand of fuel we are to patronize.

Are they really taking apart the engine to "clean it" ? Are they removing the upper cylinder head ? Is the warranty covering this ?

 

If "top tier" gas is unavailable, you can get techron additive at many auto parts stores, or what I use "SeaFoam" additive.

 

one is that there be at least 8% but not more than 10% ethanol (thank you corn lobby), and that there be higher levels of detergents than the federally mandated minimum. It's the detergent levels that help.

That said, when one of the bonehead dealers say "you used bad gas" tell them to prove it and that you only get gold-plated ultra-hyped uber-marketed super-gas!

That said, you can add your own detergents like others have mentioned, or do a periodic cleaning like many others do.

Matt

 

Second that.

Jeesh, are there actually places in the CONUS selling fuel with more than 10% ethenol ?

 

Your engine was gunked up from the design of the PCV system.

 

Sounds like BS from the dealer...

 

If there is so much bad gas out there why is it only the Mini Coopers have a problem. I can see alcohol may cause fuel pump problems on older cars. Mini Coopers made after 2004 should never have that problem because all of the car company's were informed about the USA going ethonal 10%. Maybe this Toyota thing will light a fire under all of these car company's to start taking care of customer problems instead of blaming everything but themselves on their problems.

I have had no problems at all with my car but if I did end up with a fuel pump problem and the dealer said it was due to bad gas I would probably go to jail for choking the idiot and destroying their whole showroom.

Ronnie948

 

More dealer B.S. Have them explain, in writing, exactly how the so-called "bad gas" caused the conditions they discovered in your engine.

"Top Tier" is a gasoline marketing association, and the participating brands pay a fee to be labelled "Top Tier". Is a Top Tier brand better than a non-Top Tier brand? Only a chemical engineer would know for sure.

 

top tier gas = what a bunch of malarkey

 

Find out exactly what area of the engine has a build-up of "gunk".

If it is a build-up in the cylinder chamber, it could be due to less than top quality gas.

If it is on the back of the intake valves, then the "bad gas" claim is pure BS. This is a direct injection engine and no gas passes over the back of the intake valves. So, they cannot be cleaned by the detergent in the gas.

More traditional engine designs have the air/fuel mixture flowing through the valves. This exposes the back of the valves with the cleaning agents in the gas. With a MINI, only the air, and fumes from the PCV system flow through the valves. Gas is injected directly into the cylinder chamber.

The design of the MINI engine (and many other recent direct injection engines) do not have any means for cleaning the PCV fume deposits off the back of the valves.

This is an engine design problem, not a bad gas problem.

 

Do you do Seafoam treatments Robin? I have a JCW and am thinking of doing it at 10,000 miles then every 10,000 or so. I'm not 100% convinced there isn't some risk to it but the benefit (cleaning the valves) seems worth it.

 

When I took delivery of my MINI, my MA took me to get a complimentary fill up. The station that we went to across the street from the dealership sells low cost, Brand X gas. The gas was put on the dealership's account.
I was advised to put Premium in, which I do.
I sometimes go to Shell, but usually fill up at a local low cost station.

I don't believe this "bad gas" hype for a minute.
There is an awful lot of it reported here and many threads about it.

I agree with miniclubman.
Get them to write a letter stating that "bad gas" is the cause of your engine's problem.
What reason could they have to refuse, since this is what they are telling you?
Make sure to cc it to the station that you frequent the most.
Follow up with the company that you buy your gas from and ask them to respond to the accusation that they sell inferior gas that damages engines.
I suggest a cc to your lawyer as well.
Remain calm and polite throughout this reasonable scenario.

I also hope, along with ronnie948, that the Toyota debacle is causing the entire auto industry to take a good hard look at their product and their responsibility to their customers. I'm afraid that I am too cynical to think that it will matter though.

Good luck!

 

I only put 91 Chevron/Texaco or on rare occasional Shell always.
I will stick in some 97 Sunoco or 100 VP Racing Fuel for track days.
And a small bottle of Techron 1 or 2 times a month.
I have only put CHEAP gas 3 times, all 3 times were an almost outta gas emergency and I only put $5 bucks in until I could make it to the next Chevron/Texaco. I also use Sunoco 93 which is not Top Tier but good gas nevertheless.
1. Outside Chicago traveling across US
2. At the Dragon
3. In Utah traveling across US

 

I actually have had bad gas...high percentage of water according to the dealer..the gas station paid for it...

I always use premium..usually BP 93, but what is considered TOP TIER?

 

I don't doubt that bad gas exists, but I do doubt that it is to blame for as many problems that are reported here.
I am glad that the gas station paid in your case.
That is why I think that whenever bad gas is diagnosed as the cause of a problem, the gas station should be involved as well.
Really, there should be no such thing as bad gas from any licensed station that has passed regulation requirements.

In your case, did the station correct the problem that caused them to be selling bad gas?

I don't know what constitutes Top-Tier either.

I do know that my dealer uses low cost gas in the cars that they sell.
No one told me that the brand of gas mattered, only that I should use premium.

 

This is most likely the cause. Our Mazda CX-7 suffers from the same design flaw, as stated by the service rep. at our dealer. The engine requires periodic cleaning or flushing, to clean the back of the valves since the gas is injected drectly into the cylinder.

 

Usually run Shell, V-Power and I'm on my third HPFP in 10k. I call BS on the bad gas.

 

http://www.toptiergas.com/

 

Thanks sequence for the link.
It makes a case that many here also support.
I am very ignorant of automobile engines and how they work, but am trying to learn.
I really appreciate the patient education that many here are willing to provide.

I only have one problem with the document that you sited.
Who produced it?
Perhaps I missed it, but I can't find a reference citing the source of the website.
I am not disputing the information, but I am curious as to who posted it on the internet.

 

The toptiergas.com domain is registered/owned by GM. That is the site they created for the Top Tier gas program (for consumers at least). It is essentially the site by and for the gas companies that have the Top Tier designation.

 

Thank you!