When I started up my 07 MCS Automatic at -20 C or -4 F the yellow engine light came on (Full engine power no longer available). The car sounded fine at this time so I started to drive out of the parking lot but the car had no power, it was moving at an idle speed only. As I continued to idle along in stop and go traffic the car started revving up and down like it was going to shut off. When I would take my foot of the break the car would jump fwd at first but after 5 minutes or so the car did not want to move at all until I hit the gas peddle, the engine would then make a terrible noise like it was going to cease up solid. During this I could smell something burning like sugar. After this I pulled into a parking lot to call the dealership to come pick up the car because it would not go any faster that 10Km/hr and I was afraid I would cook the engine(new with only 2500Km.After I stopped the car and shut it down I restarted it to see what would happen and everything was fine, no yellow engine light. Once I arrive home I looked under the bonnet to see if I could see anything wrong but there was nothing except for the smell of gas after I remove the oil cap.


The dealership will not be able to take a look at the car for 6 more days so I’m concerned if I should continue to drive.

Does anyone have any ideas on what the problem may be?

 

I see you have a R56 so I removed my post, it was for a R53.
You also posted the same question in the 1st generation section so I was a bit thrown of.

 

if you have an 07 you are still under warranty. Get a loner while you wait. Unless you aren't telling us some thing you did earlier it sounds like a failure in the drive-train either (i know its a broad space) in the trans or some other feature the puts the power to the ground(ei tr converter, cv joint....etc. If your car runs ok at idle or in N at a high rev without sputtering then proses of elimination puts it there (ps i am not right i am just guessing like you are doing until you take it to the dealership on a flat bed truck because you shouldn't drive it) Either way it sounds like it would be a warinty issue and you should be in the clear

 

Taken the car in for service today and thay told me it was a problem with the Throttle Valve. They figured the valve may have frozen from condensation. They removed and replaced valve cover, cleaned out the throttle body and spayed it with a special silicon fluid. They also changed the oil and filter.
I don't think this was the cause for the grinding noise and the smell of something burning but at least it's documented in case something happens later.

Twin Turbo

 

are you sure it was a gas smell or just a petroleum smell? Something would have to be seriously wrong for gas to get into your oil.

Your engine went into limp mode while it wouldn't hardly run. Sorta normal when the ECU detects something wrong.

 

What's the dif between gas and petroleum smell? If must of been a problem with the oil in order for them to change it with only 3k.

I only know the basics of how things work with the engine. So why wouldn't gas get into the oil? I was pressing on the gas with no power so the extra gas would have to go somewhere i would think!

I agree, something bad wet wrong but they are not willing to fix the real problem unless something major is not working. What do you do if there's no sign of a problem and no codes in memory stating the problem.

P.S. I forgot to mention they done some work with the High pressure fuel line/Rail(I think) a few weeks back as i was smelling gas in the cab of the car. Not sure if this is what caused the smell of gas/Petroleum in the oil.

Twin Turbo

 

Don't forget, these things are drive-by-wire, which means there's no actual mechanical connection between the gas pedal and the throttle bodies. Some sensors and circuitry are telling the computer when you step on it; the computer then tells the injectors, ignition and valves what to do depending on the throttle position, engine rpm's, what gear the auto trans is in, outside air and engine temperatures, O2 levels, and a bunch more stuff. When the car goes into 'limp mode', the computer is basically saying it doesn't care how far you push the gas, it's only going to behave like you're barely touching it. So that 'extra gas' is just staying in the tank.

As far as the grinding noise, that could have been any number of things under the hood but not in the engine itself, especially in that kind of cold temperature. Could be anything from a cranky torque converter to ice on a pulley. I recall one car of mine some time ago that would make some pretty hideous noises in sub-zero cold that scared the bajeezus out of me. I never did find out what it was, but it went away once it warmed up. Mechanical things can sometimes get a little ornery in extreme temps.

How's the car running now since your trip to the dealer? Any more oil or gas smells under the bonnet?

 

The smell of gas is gone since they replaced the oil and filter and the car was running fine after the light turned off.

I still don't understand why a car with only 3000Km on it will have dirty oil and be down 1/3 of a liter. When i mentioned this to the service advisor he said this was normal for minis and BMWs and you will have to top it up from time to time between oil changes. I have a 04 RAV 4 with 120000Km on it and it doesn't lose a drop of oil between oil changes and it doesn't turn black. I think this goes to show that the quality control don't compair to Toyota.


Twin Turbo

 

I have the same, if not similar problem, and it's not going well:

I've had my MCS 07 (manual) since August. I ordered it new. Love it.

On November 29, I got into my car for work, and same lights as Twin Turbo's came on: engine failure and cruise control failure. The idle was terrible. I tried to take it around the block, and it wouldn't go above 20mph. I ran to catch a bus, and had the car towed later that day. Here's what my service report says:

"Checked fault memory found fault in the DME 2B31/2B32 throttle jamming faults. Removed intake tube from inner cooler to throttle motor. Found water and ice in the throttle motor. Created PuMA case. PuMA said to R&R throttle motor, clean out water, run car until hot and remove oil cap to let steam escape from engine and to inspect air filter for water. Cleaned all water from intake tubes and throttle motor. Inspected air filter for water ingestion. None. Re-installed all parts removed. Cleared fault memory. Ran car until engine was hot and removed oil filler cap and let moisture escape. Customer should try to let car get hot on every trip. Avoid short trips as this will cause moisture to build up in throttle and crank case."

The dealership had my car for a full week, because Mini could not give them a fix for the issue. Mini said I need to drive it more to keep condensation from collecting and freezing. The dealership replied that they can't sell Mini's to people if there's a minimum amount of mileage/time the user must drive everyday for. The dealership also told me that they're the northern most dealership in the US (I'm in Minnesota), so occasionally problems pop up that no one else sees. They give me my car, unfixed, and we hope for the best.

January 3: after driving my car daily, I get in my car, exact same thing happens. Indicator lights go wonky, car struggles to idle. I take the bus to work, get home, and the car starts/runs OK and I drive it to the dealership. This time they have it for 3 days. Same problem - ice in the throttle. They run the car on high, and let the steam escape by removing the oil cap. That's the best they can do.

January 21: Get in the car for work, same problem as above. I let the car idle for 30 minutes, and it sounded terrible. Stepping on gas pedal to rev the engine occasionally does nothing - pedal goes straight to floor. Wait for ice to thaw in throttle. After a half hour, call my service rep at the dealership. He tells me to turn off the car, and restart. Car then runs fine. I take it to the dealership. I am on courtesy car #3.

Three times. The first time I brought it in, another 07 Mini had the same problem. Between 1st and 2nd times, the dealership said they saw it in 3 or 4 more cars. I've had a post on the Sota Mini's forum, and an owner there has had it happen to them 2 times (second time was today).

Obviously there's a problem with the 07's. Yes, I am in a cold environment, and sometimes things freeze, but I didn't spend a ton of money for an unreliable car. The dealership is just as frustrated as I am (well, I'm probably more frustrated) because Mini hasn't yet acknowledged that there really is a problem. Hence, there's nothing to fix.

My friends refuse to go anywhere with me, because they're afraid we'll get stranded somewhere. My family doesn't want me driving it either.

Please, Twin Turbo, if this happens again, let it idle, then restart, and if it's idling correctly you can probably drive your Mini to the dealership. Other Mini owners, if this happens to you, report it to your dealership! It seems that the only way Mini will come up with a fix is if it happens to enough cars and acknowledge the problem as a defect. Aside from this problem, I do love my Mini, but I'm seriously considering having the dealership buy the car back from me - I cannot have a car that may not run in cold weather.

 

Twin Turbo,

The smell of petroleum (gasoline) in your crankcase was probably due to the car's throttle valve (I'm assuming that they meant the throttle plate or "butterfly" itself) being frozen. By continuing to drive it and give it throttle input, you were probably dumping more fuel into it than it could burn and it was running past the rings into the crankcase. That would be why they changed the oil and rightfully so.

Number 13,

How far is your commute from home to work, one way? Any possibility of getting your Mini into your garage if you have one? Does the prevailing wind at your house blow directly into the grille of your Mini? Can you cover the grille up with anything? That might help...

 

I do have a short commute - I have an 8 mile drive on city streets. I do put my Mini in a detached garage, but it doesn't help much when it's -5 below. I know having a longer commute (preferrably on a highway) would help, but my 1997 Jetta never had a problem. I was hoping that by buying a new car, I would have a car that would start reliably for at least the first few years...

 

That's a very depressing story and I'm sorry for you honestly. But if what you say is true the Mini isn't the car for you. If it were me and I had only one car I'd really push for the dealer to take it back and get a MN friendlier car. Mysterious condensation during a MN winter is not a good thing for any car. While it could be some leaky thingamajig somewhere the fact that others are coming out of the woodwork with the same thing goes against that and speaks more for a design flaw that until they can uncover makes the reliability of your mobile pretty bad. Now if you could just leave it in the garage until spring..........

 

That is most unfortunate, especially in a stock car. Any car should be warmed up before driving, but that is odd. You would think that the ECU would not throw the code during idle, thus allowing the car to warm up and melt away the ice, so when you do drive off, you will be problem free, without having to turn off and restart the car.

 

I just spoke to my customer service rep, and TWELVE 2007 Mini's have been brought into the dealership for the same problem between yesterday and today. Yikes! This is not just a cold weather issue - there's obviously a design flaw either in the engine or throttle valve. Mini will not fix or do a recall unless they understand that it's not an isolated incident.

I'm just going to keep my fingers crossed and hope a fix comes soon! I actually was a regular bus rider until this happened and the dealership told me to drive it daily. Maybe I should stick with the bus until we get the spring thaw!

 

number13 - I am having almost the same problem here in Chicago... it was super cold over the weekend and on Monday morning my car was having wild rpm fluxuations and I had the check engine light and cruise light come on as well... in addition to your problems I also had to deal with the fact that the car wouldn't stay running... it died on me a few times... My commute is similarly short to yours as well - PLEASE KEEP ME UPDATED!!!

AstroBlackS - I would let my MINI warm up some... but how would I even know without a temp gauge?? (my 2008 328xi loaner doesn't have a temp gauge either)

 

That is strange... Here is a question for you... Is your detached garage insulated and/or drywalled on the inside or is it just bare studs? Does it have soffit, roof (the things that spin in the wind) or eve vents? Is the garage floor wet on the warm(er) days? If your garage does not have eve/soffit/roof vents, installing some might help. My theory is that when you park the toasty warm Mini in what is most likely an unheated garage that is close to the same temperature as outside, condensation builds up and then eventually freezes as the Mini cools down. An easy way to tell if this is the problem would be to open a few of the windows in the garage just a couple of inches or you could leave the door(s) open a few inches so that the condensation can escape. Ask your service guy to ask the other customers with the same problem if they park in unheated, un-ventilated detached garages. That very well could be the cause. Another easy test that you could try is to leave your Mini outside one night. Either way, good luck with it and keep us posted!

 

With 12 cars at the same dealer in one night for this issue, i doubt if his garage is the problem. Sounds to me like a pretty severe defect. I wonder how MINI will handle it when they find a solution. Fix the throttle in ALL 07
's, or just issue a TSB for those that complain, much like they did with the door handles freezing shut in the earlier models.

 

No temp guage at all? (a coolant or oil temp guage would suffice, just to see when things are getting warmer)

 

JCWGrover,

I agree, it probably is a design flaw but if most of the people who are having the problem are parking in an unheated garage in the same weather conditions what I suggested could be the problem. People who buy Minis and live in a climate like MN has probably don't leave them outside overnight. I've never lived where the winters are as severe as what the folks up there deal with but my suggestion still sounds plausible to me. Are MN winters humid?

 

No, but the summers sure are!!

 

R56 gives you tach, speedo and gas... thats it...

the 328 loaner is tach, speedo, gas and economy (mpg) gauges...

 

I'm up in Duluth, this morning -22 F, and I had enough of this problem that the car is visiting the dealer tomorrow. Unheated garage, probably 10 degrees F this morning, but I think the cold air coming in can fool the ECU until the sensor starts reading accurately. (At least the dash temperature readout is at odds with what is really going on) A couple times earlier this week I had to restart after it started on only a couple of cylinders, but on the restart it was fine. Today, coldest day this year I was out the door with the car, I ended up restarting several times then limped to the end of the road ( 1 mile) with 3/4 power and weird throttle response, then shut down and restarted - everything fine after that.

I have an Alta cold air intake kit on the car, but I don't think that's the issue.

My 2003 325xi also was a bit cold blooded, at these temperatures it would act a lot differently.

BTW I didn't always have a garage and the Toyotas and Subarus that had to see -20 and -30 started alot better, they just needed a bit of throttle position and off they went (used synthetic oil for improved cold weather flow).

 

Just a folowup thought. Have you ever looked at how little moisture is in the iar at -22 (or even 0). I find it hard to believe that there is that much moisture around a garage with those kind of outdoor air temps.

 

Not much new to report, but a few answers to above post replies:

- Winters in Minnesota are pretty dry
- I don't believe the moisture is due to the weather - it's condensation from the engine/gasoline
- My garage is made of cinderblock, with a concrete floor, and it's tiny! Not sure I can invest money to upgrade it to make it suitable for the little guy

I received my Mini from the dealership Tuesday night, and here's what they did:

"Removed throttle valve - cleaned up water-ice-moisture. Cause of valve has been jammed." Not sure what the last sentence means. The dealership did call yesterday - they're asking all Mini owners where they buy gas and what type they put in.

Yesterday's high was 0 degrees, last night's high was -14, and the car started OK today, but I believe that's because 1) I had to drive the car for over an hour and a half yesterday and that burns off condensation, and 2) the dealership removed the water that collected on Tuesday.

If anything new comes up, I'll definitely post. Until then, anyone that sees a similar problem should take their 07 to the dealership. I (and my service rep at the dealership) hope that the number of cars with the problem will encourage Mini to come up with a fix, quickly.

 

update on mine as well today - Throttle Jammed - once 'un-jammed' the car ran fine at the dealership - as a precaution they are replacing the whole throttle body - no idea as to the cause...